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Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

justice.gov

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Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#81

Post by TheFreim »

astoor wrote: post #54
TheFreim wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very sympathetic with many of the "anti"-crypto arguments but to say there is no difference between BitConnect and Bitcoin/Ethereum is just wrong. You might believe their value is based on a similar concept, pyramid scheme type construct, but they still have massive differences. Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc actually do /something/ (even if you ultimately come to the conclusion that that something is bad).

Plausible deniability is one of ways the cryptocurrency schemes have continued for so long without collapsing - members can convince themselves that Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. aren't ponzi/pyramid schemes because they "do something". Furthermore, that "something" can keep changing over time (e.g. for Ethereum it was first ICOs and DApps, currently it is NFTs and DeFi, and in future likely to be something else), which keep…

> Furthermore, that "something" can keep changing over time

I don't follow. DApps didn't change to nfts, did they? I'm pretty sure they still are used and developed.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#82

Post by Scoundreller »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #72
jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

What about drugs? Cheaper, less middlemen, higher quality, safer delivery. What’s not to like?

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#83

Post by gjvc »

Hallucinaut wrote: post #53
gjvc wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common characteristic is that "early adopters" get disproportionately large returns compared to later adopters. Indeed those later adopters are financing the exit of the participants who "got in first". In this way it's like a Ponzi scheme, but the same could be said for stocks. You might call the above a simplification; that is fine -- my point is that this is a (inaccurate) linguistic shorthand -- calling somet…

It's grossly untrue to say it's a Ponzi scheme "like stocks" which are part ownership in companies that actually sell things in the real world and are valued by the present value of their future expected cash flows, rather than cryptocurrencies which have no such relationship to the real world, and some would argue are valued entirely on the premise of returns that can only be sustained by finding the next sucker.

I think we are in violent agreement. Two things can share a characteristic and yet be completely different, but people focus on the similarity (which is easily understood and explainable) and ignore the differences (which can be more difficult to understand and explain).

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#84

Post by joosters »

Scoundreller wrote: post #82
NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

What about drugs? Cheaper, less middlemen, higher quality, safer delivery. What’s not to like?

Fewer middlemen? Now to buy from your dealer, you have to go via a marketplace, after converting your real money on an exchange. That's at least two other intermediaries...

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#85

Post by woodruffw »

pricees wrote: post #73
jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

I want to donate to a cause that Justin Trudeau finds "unacceptable." I want to send money to Ukraine. I think this week we saw problems with tradfi in the developed and developing world. And of course in the good ole US of A, I hear stories of civil forfeiture every other month.

“Civil forfeiture” does not and has never meant “fiat forfeiture.” If the government tells you to forfeit your assets (justly or unjustly!), you can be certain that they will not be amused or deterred by attempts to hide those assets via cryptocurrency.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#86

Post by bentlegen »

pricees wrote: post #73
jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

I want to donate to a cause that Justin Trudeau finds "unacceptable." I want to send money to Ukraine. I think this week we saw problems with tradfi in the developed and developing world. And of course in the good ole US of A, I hear stories of civil forfeiture every other month.

Note that folks who claimed their bank accounts were frozen because they were “donors to the convoy” never actually verified that that actually happened [1]. At the same time the government, the RCMP, and the banks have come out and said “that didn’t happen” [2]. Last, the government ceded its emergency powers after about a week total, despite claims on HN and various thinkpieces that they would be extended in perpetuity [3].

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/mp-mark-stra...

[2] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-rcmp-banks-an...

[3] https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2022/02/23/justin-t...

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#87

Post by Scoundreller »

joosters wrote: post #84
Scoundreller wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about drugs? Cheaper, less middlemen, higher quality, safer delivery. What’s not to like?

Fewer middlemen? Now to buy from your dealer, you have to go via a marketplace, after converting your real money on an exchange. That's at least two other intermediaries...

Your dealer… may just be buying online (and stepping on it).

Depends on what they’re supplying. Something locally grown, ok, but overseas labs synthetics can involve a lot of middlemen.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#88

Post by er4hn »

namdnay wrote: post #40
leashless wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is climate change. https://medium.com/humanizing-the-singularity/can-the-world-... Smart contracts are the best shot we have of doing carbon, methane etc. tracking, managing offsetting payments and everything else required to start getting a grip on the CO2 emissions of the consumer economy.

I’ve got to admire the Chutzpah of claiming that crypto is the solution to climate change… and seriously, why on earth would this sort of tracking need smart contracts rather than say a database managed by a certification organization? Or even the UN?

In case Justin Trudeau's war on truckers prevents you from helping them buy electric cybertrucks. Or you need to do some cap and trade with Russia. You've got to take the internationalist view here.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#89

Post by capableweb »

space_rock wrote: post #76
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #67

Interesting that there is no mention that he has been charged of being involved in a Ponzi scheme in the headline - just "Cryptocurrency Scheme".

Is there a cryptocurrency token sale that's not designed to defraud the buyers?

There are a couple of "token sales" (they don't call them that) that only allowed accredited investors to invest, and had their "token sales" registered with the SEC before they went live with them. If those were designed to defraud the investors, I'm pretty sure SEC would go after those first.
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