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mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

joshhorne.com

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Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#171

Post by nintendo1889 »

r_hoods_ghost wrote: post #151
transpute wrote: post #49

> Because mmWave radar doesn’t process visual light, what it sees is not personally identifiable. With machine learning improvements, identification and more are possible. From a 2021 paper on IEEE 802.11bf Wi-Fi Sensing, https://arxiv.org/pdf/2103.14918.pdf > Indeed, it has been shown that SENS-based classifiers can infer privacy-critical information such as keyboard typing, gesture recognition and activity tracking…

And lets be honest here, mmWave radar won't be used on its' own, but instead will be used to in conjunction with visible light and other forms of privacy violating sensing technology to increase the resolution of the panopticon.

We're closer to the star trek future of "sensors" that can sense a planet's surface from 1000s of miles away.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#172

Post by hornej »

jldugger wrote: post #110

> In October 2019, Soli shipped in the Pixel 4, marketed to consumers as "Motion Sense." It provided users with a faster face unlock along with some basic touchless gestures like controlling music. Google must have decided it was still too early as they haven’t included Soli in any of the Pixel phones since. Wasn't the blocker regulations in India?

quite possibly. i didn't dive down that rabbit hole so just said 'too early' ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

would be interested if you have any links about it

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#173

Post by hornej »

l33tman wrote: post #124
hornej wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of experience with TI's IWR6843AOP chip and dev kit. It has 3 transmitters and 4 receivers and it'd be impossible to create a facial reconstruction with it.

Is it possible to grab the raw ADC outputs from that dev kit alone into the PC by USB or is another ADC kit or something needed?

I've just used it for the point cloud data which can be streamed via USB. If you want to stream the raw data I think you'll need https://www.ti.com/tool/DCA1000EVM. it has a 1Gbps ethernet port on it.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#174

Post by dheera »

iSnow wrote: post #111
dheera wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the material has a bug that wasn't discovered until recently, so we fix the bug and re-deploy the material. It's that simple. Just embed some carbon fibers or something in the swim suit, there are tons of ways to block UV. It's like if your car seatbelts have a bug you issue a product recall. Same thing.

Or just add a near infrared filter to cameras. Much easier and can even be mandated by law if necessary.

No. I can rip off infrared filters from any camera I own.

I already do that, because I image nebulae and galaxies and sometimes landscapes in infrared.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#175

Post by dheera »

doctor_eval wrote: post #116
dheera wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the material has a bug that wasn't discovered until recently, so we fix the bug and re-deploy the material. It's that simple. Just embed some carbon fibers or something in the swim suit, there are tons of ways to block UV. It's like if your car seatbelts have a bug you issue a product recall. Same thing.

You do realise that you have to add this to every swimsuit on the planet, right? And all other clothes that may exhibit it this behaviour? It is not the material that’s buggy, it’s new technology which can look under clothes and damage privacy that’s the problem.

No. That's like saying thieves are the problem so tie up the hands of every would-be thief and don't bother lock doors.

It's much simpler to lock doors, and that prevents thieves 99.9% of the time.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#176

Post by mikem170 »

musingsole wrote: post #142
oezi wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do that today with normal tech today. That's why you need laws in place that prohibit work place monitoring.

You could argue that today's circumstance is why you DON'T need explicit laws prohibiting workplace monitoring. Anyone with the desire could set up such systems today. But they don't. Because they're expensive, inaccurate, and ultimately not all that useful in the social context. There are places that do employ such monitoring, but they're a corner case. Trust is a core commodity in the workplace. It's usually more p…

> There are places that do employ such monitoring, but they're a corner case.

Don't amazon warehouses already monitor workers in this much detail? Just yesterday I read someone talking about how managers get reports containing, amongst other things, how often a person was standing still. Lots of companies squeeze their employees like this, especially low paid employees.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#177

Post by hornej »

relaxing wrote: post #169
hornej wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats a good point about the hall sensors. i'll update that. PIR sensors also output an analog signal, but in practice they are binary.

There’s a funny autocorrect typo in the Adams quote: Zaphod -> Zappos.

lol, thanks. fixed it

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#178

Post by bradleyy »

bradleyy wrote: post #149
lokimedes wrote: post #71

Do any of you see avenues for a conventional radar company to contribute to this emerging trend? We produce high-end FMCW radars ( http://dopplerradars.com ) and I have been looking for ways to align us more with Tech and less with Defense.

Presence detection. Make a $50 device I can run on a battery/Power over Ethernet/etc. Make it all locally manageable, and make it work with HomeAssistant, so I don't have to deal with it "calling home" or shipping data outside my LAN. I'm not a huge fan of the current crop of presence detection, and mmWave seems like just the thing . Eventually, person detection would be fantastic, but it MUST NOT call home outside t…

Use cases:

I need a presence detector that's able to detect children near my pool.

I need a presence detector that can, via gait detection (or other), detect when a specific person crosses a threshold (e.g. autism or Alzheimer's with a tendency to run off)

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#179

Post by dathinab »

Symmetry wrote: post #148
dathinab wrote: post #65

> mmWave radar doesn’t process visual light, what it sees is not personally identifiable that is not how "personally identifiable" works as long as you can (re-)identify a person with it it's personally identifiable data. Even if identification is done by using a mmWave radar and some simple ML.

Using radars with only distance and relative speeds data, no direction at all, to identify equipment has a long history in the military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_MASINT#Non-Cooperative_T... Humans come in greater variety than airplanes but recognition, especially with things like gait analysis, should be quite possible. Now, I'm skeptical that a photo of a person contains enough information to allow for mm…

Interesting, though it's enough that two independent mmWave radars can re-recognize a person to count as identifiable. No need to involve visual data. Especially if mmWave radars become common place.

Re: mmWave radar, you won't see it coming

#180

Post by vasco »

mateo1 wrote: post #129
hornej wrote: post #2

I've been following and building mmWave radar stuff for a little over a year now and I wanted to write an intro to help anyone get up to speed on how it works, why it's special, and what's been happening in the space.

Please write up how to make a simple passive detector so people can have a chance to know if they are being tracked. This is going to be in every home in 10 years embedded in phones, TVs, smart speakers. All public venues. Trams, buses, subways. Everywhere. But most importantly homes. Every. Single. Person. 24/7. Breathing rate. Abnormal motions. Current location. Current activity. Maybe, just maybe if we raise a som…

If it's going everywhere, making a detector won't be very useful. Perhaps a jammer / shield.
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