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Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

symboliclogic.io

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Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#171

Post by ajford »

gpm wrote: post #78
ben7799 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely zero clinical/valid evidence that Cherry MX switches do a shred of anything for RSI. It's all hype. There's nothing medical behind any of it. I find the extra key travel of those switches fatigues my fingers/arms far more and makes me feel far more like I'm going to have RSI. I did have full blown RSI, and ditching mechanical keyboards was a key part of getting past it. Now that's just my anecdote,…

I second (or third now) that travel on typical mechanical switches is anecdotally sub-optimal for my RSI. Membrane dome switches with a lot of travel are worse, but membrane dome switches with almost no travel seem to be better. Ironically the worse keyboard I've used for it also happened to be an "ergonomic" keyboard (from the 90s, or maybe early 2000s) with keys tilted outwards. I think partially because of the pos…

Try a short-travel or low profile mech switch. I believe both Cherry and Kailh have a Speed series with a short activation distance. The Kailh Choc line of low-profile switches has something like a 1-2mm travel which might work too.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#172

Post by TacticalCoder »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

> It turns out twisting my right hand outward in order to accommodate my mouse to the right of my keyboard was the culprit.

I noticed that very early on in my career. Back when keyboards you could reasonably buy always had a keypad at the right of the keyboard.

So what did I do back then? (we're talking early 2000 or so)...

I learned to use my mouse as a leftie.

And to this day I can use my mouse either with the left hand or right hand.

Also I made sure to configure everything so that mouse usage is minimized.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#174

Post by ajford »

lowbloodsugar wrote: post #153
wolrah wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using a Moonlander exclusively on my desktop since November 2020 while having no trouble continuing to use a Macbook Air or my old Acer laptop. The differently placed modifier keys on the laptops screw me up infinitely more than going from an ortholinear split to a laptop and back.

It is the modifier keys that has me using two magic keyboards like the article. When I'm away from my desk, with my mac, I can still use it.

With a programable mechanical kb you should be able to match the Mac layout. There are a few split versions that should have sufficient keys, especially if you're not using a ten-key frequently.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#175

Post by InvertedRhodium »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #164
roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

This guy seems to have given up too soon. There are also normal spilt keyboards like the UHK. And even cheaper Chinese options like the Mistel Barocco. These Chinese keyboards are what most people should get if they need a split keyboard. Normal keyboard layout, just split. Connected by a coiled USBC to USBC cable that you could replace with a longer cable. I use the Mistel which fine for me. The layout never bothere…

I ordered my UHKv2 in January and ended up buying a Dygma Raise in the meantime while I wait. I'm sure the UHK will be a lovely keyboard, when it finally ships.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#177

Post by megameter »

porker wrote: post #141
bxparks wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the mouse for me as well. It started to cause sharp pain on the underside of my right elbow. The problem seemed to be the numeric pad on the right side of the keyboard, which pushes the mouse slightly further away from my body, stretching my arm slightly further out. The solution was to switch my mouse to the left side, where it could be slightly closer to my body. It took a few months of getting used to, but…

Yes I have had the same elbow pain. It started 5 years after switching my mouse to my left hand due to right arm pain. A concerted programme of golfer's elbow exercises and creating a split keyboard as described have dealt with the pain. I am now using a Slimblade trackball and not getting on with it: it causes different pain and 3 months in I am still not accurate.

While I have not used the Slimblade, I did consider it when I last shopped for trackballs and settled for the Orbit instead, which I've owned before and can use for hours at a stretch without issue. I believe the angles of the palm rest are substantially different between the two models and there have been complaints of worse ergonomic properties with the Slimblade, which was enough to dissuade me. It's something that could be adjusted with foam and cardboard(and given a nicer texture with vinyl tape) if you're willing to experiment.

I would also review desk/chair height and other major elements of the setup too. Pain in the extremities can have causation near the hips, back or shoulders so increasingly I favor looking for holistic solutions. Lately I have been doing animal crawl exercises(bear, lizard, crab) and have found that they clear up a lot of minor aches-and-pains issues, so that might be another thing to try.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#178

Post by ajford »

srcreigh wrote: post #131

The Advantage 2 can be modified to be a split keyboard. Take a look inside, it's pretty simple. [0] Just need some longer cables and add extra supports to the case right? It appears at least one person has accomplished this. [1] [0]: http://www.abarry.org/likelytobeforgotten/wp-content/uploads... [1]: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=16112.0

Kinesis has also been teasing a new board that looks to be a split Advantage style board.

https://twitter.com/kinesisergo/status/1397335511694381058

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#179

Post by thrower123 »

The only time I have any beginnings of repetitive stress type issues is if I have to use laptop keyboards or somebody else's mouse.

I have full-sized or oversized IBM-style mechanical keyboards and the largest mouse that I could find on the market. It's not like I have the most enormous hands, but I can't deal with being cramped up on a little 14 inch laptop keyboard.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#180

Post by megameter »

rhizome31 wrote: post #148

If you're not exercising regularly and you have pain triggered by programming you should give exercise a chance. It has worked wonderfully for me. In my case just running 5k every week has done the trick. Pain went away magically and never came back. I have no idea how running can prevent what seems to be unrelated pain but I swear it worked for me. I now use the most basic keyboard and mouse and I'm fine. I don't kn…

I started doing animal crawls every day recently after being tipped off by some YT videos to their benefits, and they seem to work even better than running for the goal of full-body maintenance. Every time I finish I feel like my spine has been gently massaged.
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