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Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

symboliclogic.io

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Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#101

Post by oauea »

0x000000001 wrote: post #100
slightwinder wrote: post #16

Or just use a split keyboard, there are some dozen available nowadays: https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards Personally, I'm using a Dygma Raise, after testing the Ergodox for a while. And the Dygma is really mostly perfect IMHO. I would prefer it to have an ortholinear layout, and an additional row with F-Keys (layers can be cumbersome when hands are not at homerow-position). But the build-quality and…

Did you read the article? > Not far enough apart.

Sure did. Just take a look at https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/ or similar. There's a cable that separates the two keyboards and they can go further apart than the picture in the article. Or just replace the cable with a longer one.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#102

Post by warp »

jon-wood wrote: post #96
roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

I'm curious, is the Moonlander enough of an upgrade over the EZ to be worth dropping that sort of money on a second keyboard? What are the big differences you've actually noticed having made the jump?

I don't have any experience with the Ergodox, and I loved the Moonlander when I first got it. But having used it for about 8 months now I really don't like how they've implemented the tenting -- the thumb cluster ends up too far away, making the inner most thumb keys on both sides unreachable (for me).

I'm likely going to replace it with something with better designed thumb clusters when I can (probably a Kyria or maybe a Corne variant).

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#103

Post by bxparks »

darthvoldemort wrote: post #34

There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine. It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, p…

It was the mouse for me as well. It started to cause sharp pain on the underside of my right elbow. The problem seemed to be the numeric pad on the right side of the keyboard, which pushes the mouse slightly further away from my body, stretching my arm slightly further out.

The solution was to switch my mouse to the left side, where it could be slightly closer to my body. It took a few months of getting used to, but after 10-20 years (can't remember), I've never had pain on my left arm. I have tried going back to right side a few times, just out of curiosity, and the pain on the right arm will come back after a few months.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#104

Post by flamwenco »

roganartu wrote: post #11

> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch. This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me. Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split…

Having recently gotten back into mechanical keyboards, partially for ergonomic reasons, I can say the Moonlander so far is the single board I regret purchasing.

Almost $400 for a board that is so poorly designed you have to choose between a usable thumb cluster position or a comfortable tenting angle, because the thumb cluster is used as one of the tenting legs. So unless you have giant hands, it's just a very poor experience compared to some other boards I've tried. For far, far less.

And to fix this, instead of revising the Moonlander, ZSA is happy to sell you an $80 tripod kit, tripods not included.

You can get the benefits of a split board for a _fraction_ of the price by getting something like a Lily58 or a Corne, which have far saner thumb cluster designs, and have plenty of solutions for tenting. And if you're like the author of the linked article who can't handle high travel keys, both of those boards are available with low profile mechanical Choc switches.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#105

Post by warp »

FalconSensei wrote: post #75
ben7799 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's absolutely zero clinical/valid evidence that Cherry MX switches do a shred of anything for RSI. It's all hype. There's nothing medical behind any of it. I find the extra key travel of those switches fatigues my fingers/arms far more and makes me feel far more like I'm going to have RSI. I did have full blown RSI, and ditching mechanical keyboards was a key part of getting past it. Now that's just my anecdote,…

> I find the extra key travel of those switches fatigues my fingers/arms far more and makes me feel far more like I'm going to have RSI. I just can't bear the thought of using mechanical keyboard where I have to lift my fingers too much to be able to move them and press another key. For me, the less I need to move my fingers up/down, and the less pressure I have to apply, the better - as in, hurts way less

I think that's the main benefit of a mechanical keyboard with hotswap sockets -- you can change out the switches for something better (for you).

There are switches with lighter springs, so you can apply less pressure. And if you forgo the MX style mechanical keys you can get a keyboard with low profile "choc" switches, which have less travel.

(for example purpz are low profile with a very light actuation force: https://boardsource.xyz/store/5fff705f03db380da20f1014 -- I have no experience with them yet, as my choc keyboard isn't hotswap)

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#106

Post by stronglikedan »

Coincidentally, I just started using two keyboards for related but different reasons - left-hand mousing. I started developing tendonitis in my right thumb from mousing. Didn't matter whether mouse, pad, or ball - everything wore on it. So, I learned to mouse with my left hand, but this presented another problem - keyboard shortcuts. I found it was difficult to keep reaching over to my left side with my right hand, where most of the common keyboard shortcuts reside. I used to use my left hand for those, but moving between mouse and keyboard is also difficult. My solution was to set up a half-keyboard (aka gaming keyboard) to the right to my main keyboard. Now all my common shortcuts are easily accessible to my right hand, and it only took a few days to get used to (much less time than left hand mousing). It's working well so far.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#107

Post by lupire »

slightwinder wrote: post #16

Or just use a split keyboard, there are some dozen available nowadays: https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards Personally, I'm using a Dygma Raise, after testing the Ergodox for a while. And the Dygma is really mostly perfect IMHO. I would prefer it to have an ortholinear layout, and an additional row with F-Keys (layers can be cumbersome when hands are not at homerow-position). But the build-quality and…

OP is committed to Mac keyboards, despite claiming to care about ergonomics.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#108

Post by stronglikedan »

lancefisher wrote: post #53

When I broke my clavicle, I rigged up a second keyboard that I could use with my arm in a sling: https://live-fts.flickr.com/photos/lancefisher/4293591069/in... It worked really well! The biggest downside was that I had to use modifier keys on the same keyboard as the key I was modifying. e.g. right shift and l to get a capital L.

That keyboard you have in your left hand is one of my favorite keyboards ever, as far as non-standard layouts go, anyway. I just love how it fits over any laptop keyboard for ergonomics on the go.

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#109

Post by warp »

georgewsinger wrote: post #23

Split keyboards can also do this :] If you've always wanted to get one of those fancy custom split keyboards (corne, iris, etc), I highly recommend https://keebmaker.com/ . For a small price premium, you basically pick out the keyboard you want, and they'll build it for you (so you don't have to mess with soldering, etc).

I had keebmaker build me an iris some time ago, I second this recommendation, excellent service.

(I regret not picking a keyboard with hotswap sockets, I'd like to experiment with different switches but this iris will have brown chocs soldered onto it forever :)

Re: Using two keyboards at once for pain relief

#110

Post by ruffrey »

samuell wrote: post #94

I used to do this before with two wireless Logitech K400rs, to ease my wrist pain. I really like their compactness, built in touchpad and volume controls etc), but was not happy with the fact that i could not keep them too close to each other, and that fn-key combinations would not work across the two keyboards (on k400 the fn keys are key (pun intended) to getting to the function keys)

If you're on mac, Karabiner will link the function and hot key combos http://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org to
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