Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux on the Framework Laptop

frame.work

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 267 posts

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#171

Post by filmgirlcw »

bastardoperator wrote: post #89
amarshall wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What laptops are you comparing to? When I compared to Lenovo X series and Dell XPS, Framework came out hundreds of dollars cheaper.

If we look at a maxed out dell xps 13 with ubuntu, the cost is $1,909.00 and I can probably squeak out some additional cost with my business account. If we look at a maxed out M1 Macbook Air it's $2,049.00 with 2TB of drive space. The maxed out frame.work costs $1,917.00 with a 100 dollar deposit and that doesn't have a drive in because I don't trust WD with my data. If we add a 2 TB drive the cost is $2,316.00 or $2…

So FWIW, I got an XPS 13 9310 at the end of June for $1799 (marked down $200 because of a Costco special) that had an 1185G7, 32GB of RAM, 4K screen, 1TB hard drive. I also configured an almost identical DIY Framework (which will hopefully arrive today) with a bunch of extra modules (Dell just has two USB-C ports and a micro-SD). The drive-out price on the Costco (with tax, which is 10.25% in Seattle) was $1940.38.

The drive out cost on my Framework, which has a better network card, faster RAM (though the Dell RAM is soldered so it is better for battery), an SN850 SSD (I trust WD for the high-end gen4 SSDs), and better port options, was $2032.00. I could have shaved off more than $100 if I chose a different port selection (I got 8 total modules) and didn't get the AC adapter and I could have saved further money if I had chosen the SN759 and the non VPro WiFi adapter (which I probably should have in retrospect)

For $90 extra, I get something repairable, something that that will let me upgrade to 64GB of RAM (32GB is the max on the XPS 13), and something more versatile from a port perspective.

Framework didn't charge tax (that will change, I'm sure as soon as they sell the required amount in various states), but even if we account for that, that would leave us at $2240.38. I'm personally willing to pay a 10% penalty for having something more repairable and sustainable. (Also need to factor in the cost of a Costco membership

That said -- I just checked Dell's website and the Developer Edition with an i7 (1165G7 or 1185G7), 32GB of RAM, a 1TB SSD and 4K screen is $2159.00 before tax. So that's $80 more than my identically configured Framework, but with a lower quality SSD and WiFi adapter. The Dell has a better screen -- though I prefer the 3:2 aspect ratio of the Framework/Surface/Matebook X Pro).

I understand you CAN get a cheaper laptop, but as someone who will be returning the XPS as soon as the Framework arrives (assuming it is half as good as the reviews have been), I'm looking at something that costs the exact same and is also more sustainable.

edited to correct the price different between the XPS with tax and the Framework without. It is $90 difference vs $70.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#172

Post by meowster »

nrp wrote: post #122
flowerlad wrote: post #94

I love how the storage expansion cards are easily replaceable by the user: https://frame.work/blog/storage-expansion-cards Sadly it looks like the boot drive cannot be replaced in this manner. Many years ago I had a Compaq laptop with swappable boot drive. So one day you can boot Windows and the next day you can boot Linux. Without any external drives. (No messing with dual boot -- you replace the hard drive complete…

You can actually boot Linux off of the Storage Expansion Cards (I do it regularly with Fedora 34 and Ubuntu 21.04). You can't easily do that with Windows 10, but you can put Windows 10 on the internal SSD and Linux on the Expansion Card to achieve what you're describing.

Supposedly there are programs (Rufus?) that will install Windows to an external drive, but I've never tried that.

I too might consider the Framework laptop if I could boot both Linux and Windows off of a Storage Expansion card.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#173

Post by _t2kx »

ksec wrote: post #151
commoner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the Framework Laptop had a keyboard option with a TrackPoint-style pointing stick (and 3 physical mouse buttons between the keys and the touchpad), it would be a very strong contender against ThinkPads. Lenovo has handicapped recent ThinkPad models with soldered memory, and the TrackPoint is their only remaining unique feature. Framework community discussion: https://community.frame.work/t/any-chance-of-trackpoint

>If the Framework Laptop had a keyboard option with a TrackPoint-style pointing stick Patents?

the exact thinkpad style is probably patented but it's a pointing stick, a feature common across laptops in the past. I know for sure that some Dells (TrackStick) and HPs (PointStick) had them.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#174

Post by freeopinion »

GiorgioG wrote: post #109
outworlder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't see this succeeding when the laptop I have to assemble myself costs more than a prebuilt laptop with much better specs. I mean, if all that mattered were specs, we would all be running desktops at full desktop-class TDP. Or laptops made out of cheap bendy plastic with the latest CPUs. Ergonomics matter, build quality matters, and for some the ability to adapt and upgrade is also part of the spec.

> I mean, if all that mattered were specs, we would all be running desktops at full desktop-class TDP. As someone doing just that (I do 99% of my work on my desktop machine), to this day I don't understand folks doing heavy development work on a laptop. If you need portability, remote into a desktop class machine. Sure there are times when you just can't (airplane, or camping in the middle of nowhere, etc) but those…

"Remote into a desktop"? That sounds like a horrible experience to me. I've never understood why anybody would remote control a pc for anything. If you need to code on the road, just code directly on whatever device you were going to use to remote control from. How does remote controlling some other computer make this computer's experience better? You still are stuck with this keyboard, this trackpad, this display, etc.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#175

Post by 2020aj »

pkulak wrote: post #67
tylerscott wrote: post #43

I am currently using the DIY version running Ubuntu. I absolutely love this laptop. It had been awhile since I built a computer (let alone a laptop). The DIY kit instructions and the construction of the machine itself are very well thought out. I am very excited for a future where we can measure the lifespan of our personal electronics in decades rather than months. Congrats to the Framework team!

How do you deal with the screen resolution? Do you have to run it at 1.5x? And, if so, what's the fractional scaling experience like?

I'm running gnome 40 on arch/Wayland and ended up settling on 2x window scaling with .75 text scaling along with the compact materia theme. This is effectively 1.5x window scaling, but 1.5x fractional scaling alone is blurry on gnome in non gnome apps. The other alternative I tried was 1x window scaling with 1.5x text scaling, but the UI feels more cluttered/cramped.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#176

Post by filmgirlcw »

Mine should arrive today. I'm excited to get it because I can compare it head-to-head with an identically specced XPS 13 9310 (which I will return, assuming the Framework is good). I'm also excited to see the company doing this. I have concerns about how long the company can sustain itself, but thus far, every bit of communication has been terrific and it is clear they have put lots of care and thought into how they design their products.

And unlike some companies (Purism, cough), their products are shipping at the estimated times.

I really hope they make it and I really hope it encourages other manufacturers to take things like repairability and sustainability more seriously.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#177

Post by handedness »

ijidak wrote: post #130

This feels like a Firefox moment. Microsoft should buy this company right now. This laptop is amazing. I'm only taking a first look at this now after seeing this product on the HN home page a few times. The modularity and repairability. And it runs Windows... The modularity of expansion ports could be huge for travelers, executives, high-end users, and for consumers that want more options and more control over port c…

No, no, a thousand times, no.

This is easily one of the most troubling takes I've read on the web in ages, and that's saying something. If Microsoft buys them that would be the beginning of the end for everything great about Framework.

It's not like something has prevented laptop manufacturers from making hardware that isn't hostile to the user.

Anyway, if you want others to make a laptop like this, Apple would need to make one first.

I hope Framework remains wholly independent and continues to do what they're doing for a very long time, only with more resources and the stability that can buy.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#178

Post by OJFord »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #119
OJFord wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be enough to be worthwhile at all though, even ignoring the cost of the control circuitry? (and what's the laptop going to do when it sees 5 power sources? How does it know not to charge one depleted battery module from another?)

Some thinkpads already come with two batteries. The program tlp knows how to handle charging and discharging two batteries very well. It just does them one at at time in a given order of priority.

Sure, but these modules are about half the size of a phone, even all four would be considerably less capacity than a full-size spare.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#179

Post by eloisant »

rmbyrro wrote: post #6
lyptt wrote: post #3

Hopefully they ship outside of the US at some point.

Why not use a mail forwarder service in the US and ship anywhere instead of waiting?

Cost of the mail forwarder service + import taxes are going to increase the price a lot.

So if you really, really want it right now I guess that's an option... But then it becomes a really overpriced laptop.

Re: Linux on the Framework Laptop

#180

Post by freeopinion »

bastardoperator wrote: post #89
amarshall wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What laptops are you comparing to? When I compared to Lenovo X series and Dell XPS, Framework came out hundreds of dollars cheaper.

If we look at a maxed out dell xps 13 with ubuntu, the cost is $1,909.00 and I can probably squeak out some additional cost with my business account. If we look at a maxed out M1 Macbook Air it's $2,049.00 with 2TB of drive space. The maxed out frame.work costs $1,917.00 with a 100 dollar deposit and that doesn't have a drive in because I don't trust WD with my data. If we add a 2 TB drive the cost is $2,316.00 or $2…

Don't forget that you'll need a backpack or something to carry it. And you'll have to unzip the carrying case and put the laptop in or pull the laptop out yourself. And you have to unfold or fold the laptop, too.

This is exactly like the Dell or Lenovo. There's no difference at all. This laptop has not innovated in any way or have any features whatsoever that might distinguish it.

/s

If you don't see value for yourself in the obvious differences of this laptop, fine. But why snipe?

I don't care for the Intel board, so I will wait to see if they can produce an interesting Ryzen card. But that doesn't mean that others should wait.

It's awesome work. They deserve a congratulations.

Post reply on HN