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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#171

Post by ganzuul »

mc32 wrote: post #80
238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

I can confirm with the anecdote of an acquaintance in the EU. Nothing fancy. Just a hair salon. He was complaining about the authorities coming down to inspect it, looking for the smallest details to fine him. Sign was the wrong size, it wasn't illuminated the right way. Something about serving tea. It seemed absurd to me. On the other hand, it was a nice place to get a haircut.

Did he fill his shop windows with flashing TV screens in a historic area, which there are a lot of? Did he think he can serve beverages without a hygiene pass?

There maybe be reasonable explanations.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#172

Post by [deleted] »

238475235243 wrote: post #43

I've lived in a few different parts of the EU, and couldn't imagine a worse idea than starting a company there (which I did, once). Starting is hard enough without the general negative attitudes, the government insanities, the insane taxes, the low work ethic, the 8 weeks of vacation every month (I exaggerate, slightly). And I was in one of the two best EU countries, God only knows how bad it is in Spain or Italy or…

[deleted]

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#174

Post by dv_dt »

jessedhillon wrote: post #139
dv_dt wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveys of some eu nations rank them as friendly for business creation - Sweden Denmark and Switzerland rank pretty high. Universal healthcare at half the cost of the US and built into, but independent of your taxes is pretty nice for starting businesses. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/open-for-business...

All of which is an entirely separate set of points from the point you were making about the number of billionaires.

If one is concerned about wealth creation as your reply to my original data brought up, it would seem that sentiment about friendliness of business creation would be relevant. Not necessarily accumulation of wealth from winning bets a decades ago.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#175

Post by axiosgunnar »

everyone wrote: post #67
nxc18 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have wondered this. I work at an American company with many European employees and it is just really hard to see a complete lack of ambition/competitiveness. At some point being on vacation so much must hurt, I know projects are delayed when folks just can’t be expected to be there and will randomly disappear for 4+ weeks at a time. But that really doesn’t explain the extreme cultural conservatism towards effort/am…

Your crud app is 'advancing society'? Really?

Yes. Software is eating the world, one CRUD app at a time.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#176

Post by thijsc »

emptysongglass wrote: post #153
thijsc wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reporting back: Your comment is utter nonsense. There is a thriving tech scene in Europe and we do quite well! Reliable and cheap health care is a huge boon for small entrepreneurs. There’s little regulation to deal with as a software company. Child care and great schools are cheap or free. Yes firing people is much harder, that is a different context compared to the US you have to properly plan for. Which we do over…

Work for a tech company in Europe. GDPR compliance is costing us massive manpower hours and money spent on compliance consultants. Most of my salary gets obliterated before it reaches me and I make significantly less than tech workers in the US. There's a lot to like about the security but I'm starting to wonder if I can ever really break out of working until I'm enfeebled here.

Not a fan of GDPR either.

I'm really not sure the total tax load as an employee is much worse compared to California if you factor in state taxes and health care payments.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#177

Post by SOMA_BOFH »

onion2k wrote: post #163
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you tried to start a company there?

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

gee, i wonder... clearly a bunch of social geniuses in here on a slow friday night.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#178

Post by sildur »

laurent92 wrote: post #165
ddalex wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand the people in EU are happier, have better social protection, better benefits, better health systems, better consumer protection, better application of rules and laws, they make for more productive employees. Do the shareholders get as rich as fast as in the hyperactive US economy? Not, but the society functions better. I very much prefer the EU.

In the end, one may talk about all the startups (when the BPI pumps billions into it, I sure hope there are some startups and medium companies), but EU has proven unable to build an Apple . It would be dismantled here, and CEO beaten up before reaching any interesting level. DailyMotion (French) was as big as Youtube. Many others like this. We always end up #2, and the Silicon Valley still decides what is ok to say o…

EU built a Nokia. Until MS infiltrated and dismantled it, that is.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#179

Post by Talanes »

fy20 wrote: post #126
TMWNN wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On the other hand, people here don't tend to go bankrupt and lose their house, healthcare (ironically) and life (from a social aspect) in general when they don't have a perfect health Only 4% of US bankruptcies are because of medical bills https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/0... >. A tipoff that [insert large percentage here] of bankruptcies aren't actually because of medical costs is that on…

> The biggest cause of bankruptcies is lack of income, which health insurance doesn't affect. Maybe that 4% is correct, but for sure how to deal with paying for medical care is a big worry for many people in the US. There was a post a few days ago (or comments at least) discussing how many people working low wage jobs in the US are working 29 hours or fewer specifically so their employer doesn't need to provide healt…

I'm the slightly higher tier of low-wage worker that does get decent hours and benefits, and I still don't go to the doctor.

My general experience when not going in to deal with a discrete injury is that I pay 50 bucks to have someone ask me some questions, shrug, and give me the card to someone else who would cost another 50 bucks that I can no longer spare.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#180

Post by apatters »

onion2k wrote: post #163
SOMA_BOFH wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you tried to start a company there?

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

Because if you don't you'll end up with fewer businesses, which will concentrate wealth, which has documented negative effects on society.
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