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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#171

Why? Because of the already sunk cost into office space? Any other reasons? I know I can drive 40 min and stare at the same laptop and email/zoom with the same people. What’s in it for me? All I see is unnecessary agony, and a lot of it. I produce more from home. Why does an employer want me to suffer more, even if it will cost them? What’s in it for them?

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#172
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person I’m sure I’m not the only person who has the exact opposite experience with this. I can’t think and get mentally blocked when I have someone peering over my shoulder or I’m staring at their screen. I find this kind of collaboration so much easier if I’m in the comfort of my own desktop setup, sharing the screen over Te…

You’re not the only one, and contrary to sibling commenter’s experience it hasn’t had anything to do with seniority for me.

Caveat: I’m ADHD/ASD. I find it hard to focus on multiple sensory subjects at once. Pairing in an office means I’m focused on the screen; the human’s body language; the human’s verbal communication; interaction around concepts, design, mechanical stuff like what actually gets read/written/executed; a second screen because sometimes it’s more effective to computer for a second than engage all of that. Remote pairing condenses a lot of that.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#173
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

It's funny, all of the things you mention are things I would cite as perks of working remotely at my current org. I guess it depends on how you implement remote work. For example we typically have multiple departments running one or more "open calls" all day that anyone can wander into and hear what's going on. Engineering in particular makes heavy use of this, especially those who like pair programming.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#174
post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

I'd just like to add to that:

1. The daily routine and commute helps reset your brain and get you in/out of "work mode"

2. You don't have to cannibalize your home desk to make way for your work PC, or set up a second desk for work PC

3. No deciding what to get for lunch, it's whatever is closest or catered, no wanting a coffee and finding that you need to run to the store

4. If your team isn't meeting your sprint goals, someone can look at you and verify that you are working, so they won't automatically assume that the problem is with you

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#175

"Cook wrapped up the memo by saying that he's looking forward to seeing employee faces. "I know I'm not alone in missing the hum of activity, the energy, creativity and collaboration of our in-person meetings and the sense of community we've all built," he wrote." CEO's all spout the same nonsense. The majority of people work because they need to earn money. They're not working to make a new 'family' or change the wo…

Considering that we spend most of our day doing this "work" thing, I find it much more tolerable to view my coworkers as close friends and my career as an opportunity. This is especially easy in such a privileged sector as tech where pay is excellent, office life is compelling, and work is challenging and exciting. I don't know how people survive day-to-day with a perspective like yours. I get that people can get ful…

I’ve worked in a military setting where brotherhood was real, but the only employer that pushed family (I found it to be cultish at the beginning) turned into a greedy soul sucking hell hole.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#176
post #41

There’s something hyper draconian about a billionaire CEO demanding everyone return to the office so he can see their faces. Apple execs have enriched themselves by capturing way more profit than regular employees (Apple engineering pay is average/low average). This is overstepping. Not only will any company that insists on a return to the office lose employees, they’re also loudly signaling their disdain and it’s go…

Hyper draconian is Apple's theme at this point.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#177
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day. I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time

> There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them each day Of course. Especially those that hate their families (or themselves and can't spend time alone).

Not everyone is painfully asocial - and I say this as a rather asocial person myself who's only ever held remote or remote-friendly roles.

I couldn't imagine wilfully remaining at a job with coworkers so toxic that regular interaction with them is an ordeal.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I often do/did paired programming, and over-the-shoulder code reviews. These are easier in person I’m sure I’m not the only person who has the exact opposite experience with this. I can’t think and get mentally blocked when I have someone peering over my shoulder or I’m staring at their screen. I find this kind of collaboration so much easier if I’m in the comfort of my own desktop setup, sharing the screen over Te…

I think this has to do with seniority. When I was a lot more experienced than my coworker, doing pair programming was insanely fun. Because it felt like solving a puzzle with a friend, or exploring a video game with my sister. Now I'm occasionally pair programming with my manager -- who's like a 1000x me -- pair programming is mentally blocking. It's because my peer thinks so much faster than I do that it feels like…

No. At least in my case it has nothing to do with disparity in experience or speed of thought and everything to do with being in my own physical space.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would not flag comments like this. I don't agree with the commenter at all , but killing their comment doesn't help us have a conversation about their concerns. It's critical that we resolve these conflicts and not do what we (as a society) have been doing for years, where we treat people like an "other" and shun them because we don't want to deal with them.

They wouldn't call it religion if they wanted a conversation.

On the contrary, calling it out for what it is is the conversation that needs to be had. Frankly, I think he falls short of identifying the new secular religion that has taken over western civilization. You can identify its followers by the language they use. Anti-Maskers, Science Deniers, Conspiracy Theorists. All new-speak for what was once referred to as heretics. The religious drive is an instinct that humans never actually lost. They just found a new religion that better suits their modern sensibilities.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#180
post #139

I wonder how a VC would feel if a startup said “we have some ideas but our real innovation comes from people just randomly running into each other in the hallway. Will you invest?”

> I wonder how a VC would feel if a startup said “we have some ideas but our real innovation comes from people just randomly running into each other in the hallway. Will you invest?” I'm sure they would not invest in you because you didn't understand the arguments of office vs remote work. They'd probably think you were kinda dumb if your entire knowledge of human interaction was reduced down to "randomly running int…

“Hallway conversations” were literally the first point the GP made and the person you’re responding to correctly refuted that. They’re an anti-pattern, and if your company is benefiting from them, then they’ve failed in process, vision and culture. A successful company would not rely on such a thing.
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