Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1 • Hacker News Board

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#171

Post by 8ytecoder » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:29 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #32

jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

I agree. I prefer these restrictions exist but also a nontrivial way to bypass it.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#172

Post by dmitriid » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #104

dmitriid wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> e'll be seeing many more entries into the marketplace over the next few years No, not in the next few years. In 10 years? Maybe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26917136

This isn't a question of capability (which is already there), but rather of mindset. Now that the other companies know that it's possible to sell a $1000 ARM computer that's not a phone or a toy, they'll be falling all over themselves to join in on the gold rush. Lots of absolute crap will ensue as they mindlessly bumble their way through shitty designs, and then in a few years we'll see the first decent non-apple AR…

It took Apple more than 10 years to get a CPU that performs same or better as Intel's CPUs and can be put into a laptop or a desktop computer.

To produce a "decent non-apple ARM desktop and laptop computers" other companies need to have started developing such a CPU 5 years ago.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#173

Post by fauigerzigerk » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #107

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

>openness at the expense of security This is a false dilemma. You can have both.

I think you're right when it comes to security, but in order for that to work Apple would have to admit that checking apps for security issues is not inseparable from imposing rules that are supposed to benefit their own business model.

That said, here's a challenge for everybody (including myself) who doesn't like Apple's app store monopoly and side-loading ban:

Apple now requires apps to ask for permission before tracking users. Facebook is _very_ unhappy about that. Imagine what would have happened if alternative app stores were allowed on iOS.

How long would it take before a Facebook/Google sponsored app store would emerge that would carry all ad funded apps? How would you prevent this from happening?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#174

Post by casmclas » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

xvector wrote: post #85

caddybox wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple sells $20-30 billion worth of iPads each year. > I think they might just survive without your business. The parent post makes some the argument that the restrictive nature of iOS makes it unappealing to certain users. You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. Not everything that makes billions of dollars is immune to criticism. Especially since Apple markets the iPad…

> You counter that with a discussion-ending argument about how much money Apple makes. The implication is that Apple's design decision favors far more users than it doesn't. In other words, the same design decisions that cost Apple one HNer nets them general consumers - so Apple can definitely survive without the HNer's business.

That's certainly the implication of their text. It is not a legitimate conclusion. Given the premises "Apple has made a decision X" and "Apple has made billions of dollars since making that decision", you cannot conclude "the decision has made Apple billions of dollars". We cannot accept "All wood burns, therefore all that burns is wood" but "All of Alma Cogan is dead, but only some of the class of dead people are Alma Cogan".

Lots of people disapprove of Facebook's data practices, yet they still run several of the overwhelmingly most popular social networks. Apple could be in a similar position: producing an otherwise excellent product that has a limitation people tolerate.

The fact that Apple makes billions of dollars is not evidence that every single decision of theirs is the best decision for their profitability. In order for their profit to be used against the argument and comfort of a certain Hacker News commentator, we need some evidence that the revenue is because of, not despite (or unaffected by), the decisions that made the random Hacker News commentator unhappy. At best we can conclude that the decision is not such a howler that it's cost them their market viability, but perhaps if they'd made a different decision they could have owned the entire smartphone market in a way that Windows used to own the desktop OS market.

(Another logical fallacy implicit in the argument is that a decision made by a powerful person is more worthy of respect than another decision. I must admit these kinds of reactionary values are extremely far from me, and I am shocked and uncomfortable to find how common they are.)

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#175

Post by [deleted] » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #83

tw04 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers. It seems to me a rather simple fix: give users an "unrestricted mode" just like Android has the ability to install from third party. By default keep it locked down, but allow the USER to make that decision, with ample warnings all over the place about what they're about to do. Heck, for all…

If you do that, guess what Fortnite would do right now. Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. Guess what a ex-boyfriend would do right now to install a blocked spying app. For better or worse, the App Store being the exclusive way into the iPhone forces third parties to deal. Otherwise, they just tell the user to make the choice for them. If you even listen to interviews w…

[deleted]

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#176

Post by fartcannon » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:39 PM UTC

shsizbz wrote: post #74

fartcannon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to fuck around with it! You CAN just use it like a regular locked down device, and throw it into a landfill when youre done. The rest of us can get on with using the otherwise wasted power of all these tiny computers. Think of the waste caused by Apples profiteering.

Im posting this comment on an iPhone SE (1st gen) I got in mid 2016. I still get OS updates, not just security patches. Whats that about Apple waste? Its people that waste and drive waste. Id love it if I could load my own OS and do whatever on this little phone, but only if iOS itself was still locked up. I dont need to add even more worry about the safety of my “phone” (really portfolio of everything Ive done since…

Try that with an iPhone 6. Apple's position on right to repair and planned obsolescence is well known:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterygate

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#177

Post by dnh44 » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #129

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do that, guess what Fortnite would do right now. Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. Guess what a ex-boyfriend would do right now to install a blocked spying app. For better or worse, the App Store being the exclusive way into the iPhone forces third parties to deal. Otherwise, they just tell the user to make the choice for them. If you even listen to interviews w…

>If you do that, guess what Fortnite would do right now. Guess what Facebook would do to get around Apple’s privacy restrictions right now. Guess what a ex-boyfriend would do right now to install a blocked spying app. I guess I don't get your point, if a user wants to sideload fortnite or facebook, good for them? If an ex-boyfriend has your phone and your password you've probably got bigger issues than whether or not…

>I guess I don't get your point, if a user wants to sideload fortnite or facebook, good for them?

This will result in a few "must have" apps being side-loaded to start, and finish with people having to reinstall their phone operating systems every 6 months; to the detriment of the vast majority of users.

Do you not remember what the computers of regular people were like in the late 90's and early 2000's? I remember pretty much everyone non-technical having at least a mild malware infestation and at least one extra toolbar in their browser.

I'm quite happy that the free market created a solution that is more secure.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#178

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

ActorNightly wrote: post #167

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

I still dont get how people pretend Apple cares about privacy. By default Apple devices phone home and collect data on you, and this is not optional, and they will hand that data to law enforcement. They also have the ability to change their data handling policieson a whim since there is nobody holding them accountable. THIS IS NOT PRIVACY. Not that windows or android devices are better as they come out of the box, b…

You’re in an echo chamber. By default, iPhones do send diagnostic data, but that data can be disabled in Settings. They also upload your files in an encrypted connection (but without end to end encryption) into your iCloud backup, and that can be handed over with a subpoena, but you can disable iCloud backup or simply not pay for it.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#179

Post by gjsman-1000 » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:42 PM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #164

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

Philosophically I agree with you, but I also have kids, and I’ve seen the wild west that is the Play Store. Admittedly, the same problems exist on the App Store, but not to the same why-even-try level of anything goes. The amount of kids apps, that are marketed as kids apps, certified as age appropriate, then contain ads for zombie gorefest horror was enough to make me give up trying with Android entirely. I have eve…

I’m surprised you think that Apple is going to lose the epic lawsuit, because if you look at any legal commentary (I’m following Hoeg Law’s extensive coverage of the case), the odds of the App Store being broken from this lawsuit or even sideloading being allowed appears to be extremely unlikely.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#180

Post by stu2b50 » Mon, May 24, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #117

Shadonototro wrote: post #76

efficiency test speaks for itself the m1 is the renaissance of laptops

A renaissance would be a revival, surely? Laptops have been dominant for a long time now.

Laptops have dominated personal computing (by the mildly unintuitive definition of "PC"), but you could certainly argue that smartphones and tablets have eaten their lunch in the overall computing space.