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Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

theguardian.com

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Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#171

Post by na85 »

akiselev wrote: post #153
smolder wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully not bothering anyone with my wild speculation and incomplete physics knowledge here... Could it be there is some way to target a location with multiple radio beams such that the damaging effect occurs at the point of interference? Maybe just constructive interference from multiple weaker beams? Something like this would need to be aimed precisely of course. I was further led to thinking about the way you ca…

> Could it be there is some way to target a location with multiple radio beams such that the damaging effect occurs at the point of interference? Maybe just constructive interference from multiple weaker beams? Something like this would need to be aimed precisely of course. Yes, a phased array [1], which is likely what the GGP was referring to by "What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an e…

I have dinner plates that are larger than the phased array under the nose cone/radome of the C-130 Hercules or the 737.

Phased arrays can be very small.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#172

Post by StanislavPetrov »

LatteLazy wrote: post #42
Google234 wrote: post #2

Why don’t they install detectors inside all the embassies at risk to prove or disprove this? Why didn’t they do this earlier? I’m pretty sure there are many places that could be contracted to make a detector in a few weeks - this isn’t new technology. This seems really easy to test... so why are we still speculating.

If they did, there is no reason we would be told or the results would be made public.

Especially if and when they detected nothing and continued to claim they were being attacked by dastardly enemies.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#173

Post by akiselev »

na85 wrote: post #171
akiselev wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could it be there is some way to target a location with multiple radio beams such that the damaging effect occurs at the point of interference? Maybe just constructive interference from multiple weaker beams? Something like this would need to be aimed precisely of course. Yes, a phased array [1], which is likely what the GGP was referring to by "What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an e…

I have dinner plates that are larger than the phased array under the nose cone/radome of the C-130 Hercules or the 737. Phased arrays can be very small.

Source? I don't know of any plane that have a proper phased array - the only one I know of is the Airborne Phased Array Radar and that's still a WIP.

Note that just putting a couple of antennas close to each other to improve angular resolution on the radar isn't really a phased array in the sense that we're talking about.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#174

Post by krono »

andi999 wrote: post #141
mensetmanusman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon 2.4 GHz is used to heat your food in the microwave. Pulses that increase the fluence by an order of magnitude or more could probably boil water for a microsecond inside the brain and cause some strange reactions. What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an electronic weapon like this.

If liquid in your brain boils, wouldn't you also just turn blind (since the eyeball gets damaged by heat)

IIRC The pressure inside the eyeball is relatively high, and the fluid that is inside is very viscous - more like a gel. This could mitigate the effects.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#175

Post by thiagoharry »

totalZero wrote: post #149
n9 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to use that kind of argument, re: global/network effects of a government as complicit in negative outcomes of actions in other countries... the USA is by far the worst offender. It could be argued that the questiobnable actions Cuba has taken are justified in the context of trying to deal with an insidious and pervasive foreign influence over most of the globe: the US. My question is what he USSR and…

I don't think that's a good-faith characterization of my prior comment. Please read carefully. I'm not suggesting network effects. I'm talking about direct activity. There is boundless information about this available online, but this is a start regarding the Venezuela link: https://georgetownsecuritystudiesreview.org/2019/10/18/boliv... Separately, you can also read about the Cuban antecedents to Che's fatal incursi…

Cuba also contributed to lots of anti-american activities in Africa, where along with the URSS supported the struggle against apartheid and colonialism. All these things can be seen as "transgressions" and reasons for retaliations. But if acting directly in foreign countries is not right, then I think that Cuba is not exactly the worst offender.

> I find it unreasonable that you suggest the USSR's massive stockpiling of weapons was not due to their own actions and strategy, but somehow the US's fault. How can you be circumspect when you suggest that two can tango but only one does the dancing?

Well, there were socialist countries and experiments that were more democratic and did not enter in an arms race. They were wiped out. Russian Revolution was after the massacre in the Paris Commune, so they knew what to expect and prepared accordingly, even before the cold war. But the USA always reinforced this, presenting plenty of examples of how it deals with socialist sympathies in less powerful countries.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#176

Post by imwillofficial »

im3w1l wrote: post #58
mensetmanusman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directed-energy_weapon 2.4 GHz is used to heat your food in the microwave. Pulses that increase the fluence by an order of magnitude or more could probably boil water for a microsecond inside the brain and cause some strange reactions. What is unproven though, is how one would ever shrink the size of an electronic weapon like this.

You don't need to shrink it. Just go to the 5g antennas in the vicinity and press the big red "activate death ray" button.

I don't know why people are mad, I laughed.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#177

Post by _ofdw »

akiselev wrote: post #173
na85 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have dinner plates that are larger than the phased array under the nose cone/radome of the C-130 Hercules or the 737. Phased arrays can be very small.

Source? I don't know of any plane that have a proper phased array - the only one I know of is the Airborne Phased Array Radar and that's still a WIP. Note that just putting a couple of antennas close to each other to improve angular resolution on the radar isn't really a phased array in the sense that we're talking about.

Hundreds of aircraft have phased arrays onboard. See this wikipedia article: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_electronically_scanne...

Specifically, I believe the one on the 737 is the Rockwell Collins WXR-2100.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#178

Post by XorNot »

jacquesm wrote: post #167
XorNot wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are trying to hit a 15cm by 15cm sphere in 3D space that you cannot see . That it could maybe be done under ideal conditions doesn't explain how you do it when the target is mobile (but let's be generous and say you assume they're in bed), and you need to accurately visualize where they are through an unspecified amount of intermediate interfering elements (people's bedrooms aren't glass boxes). Foil wall…

But you could set up a field in such a way that statistically speaking inside any 15x15x15 sphere there would be at least one reinforcement happening.

That's not the point: it's the "undetectable" part that's the problem.

You could definitely point a bunch of microwave equipment at someone's room and cause some damage, that's not in question - but to somehow cause a bunch of neurological problems, but not leave thermal burns, or heat up jewellery, or fry electronics?

And this isn't a "with todays tech" issue either. This is all being proposed as being totally possible with 90s-era technology. The sheer amount of wireless tech innovation and availability since then has been enormous - what feels possible today is ignoring that in the 90s a cellphone looked like a brick with an antenna on it. Solid-state microwave elements weren't COTS parts you bought from China in bulk.

We're talking about doing a lot of very difficult to do things, with equipment and power outputs which would require substantial draw from either residential electricity supply systems, or banks of lead-acid batteries (no lithium ion in that age either - so you have a transport and weight problem).

The more disperse you propose the signal is, the less plausible it gets too - at some point your number of field teams and the size of the equipment is going up and up and up and all of this is happening within line-of-sight (or near enough) of a target - microwaves don't penetrate multiple buildings.

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#179

Post by imwillofficial »

eternalban wrote: post #110
jchook wrote: post #30

The USSR irradiated the US embassy in Moscow with microwaves from 1953 to 1979. Later analysis showed virtually no health impacts and no increase in mortality. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30676008/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3509929/

From your first cite, there are some interesting tidbits to consider: Interesting to learn that USSR (& associated block) had set a safe exposure level of 0.010 mW/cm2, while in US the level was set in 1953 to, and remains at, 10 mW/cm2 for GHz freq. range. The paper notes (and it is worth quoting at length in the context of this thread): " It is essential to understand the historical context in which this episode oc…

This comment is the reason I come to HN. I wish I could offer one fifth of the utility of this commenter. Thanks!

Re: Havana syndrome: NSA officer’s case hints at microwave attacks since 90s

#180

Post by simonblack »

cookguyruffles wrote: post #133
dv_dt wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t it be ironic if this was some secret comm equipment that the US is installing in its own embassies

The same idea crossed my mind. Those embassies are chock full of magical equipment, US embassies sometimes have radio-transparent walls for unspecified reasons ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embassy_of_the_United_States,_... )

The only commonality of the cases (in Cuba, China, Australia, Washington) is that all the victims were Government employees.

My take is, like yours, that all the cases are industrial injuries. Much better for the Government to blame 'adversaries' than to be on the hook for possibly millions of dollars in Workers' Compensation payouts.

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