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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#171

Post by tshaddox »

antasvara wrote: post #90
skeeter2020 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If they did not write a song they should not be getting paid for songwriting. What does "write the song" mean though? You hear lots of remix and cover versions of famous songs which are obviously derivative works, but what if that happens before the song is ever published? What if a song writer creates a song specifically for an artist? Do these stylistic influences count for writing credit? The line is not well d…

I think the line is pretty well defined. If a songwriter writes a song specifically for an artist, that doesn't indicate any less skill and definitely doesn't mean the artist added anything meaningful. That song could have just as easily (as in the Elvis example) been recorded by another artist. That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book dea…

I think there are clear cases where someone did or didn’t write a song, but there are also very blurry areas in the middle (and these areas are where the debate actually matters). My impression is that it’s not uncommon for people at many stages in the audio engineering and music production to change things that may or may not be considered part of “writing the song.”

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#173

Post by pumaontheprowl »

emodendroket wrote: post #49
mmatoscom wrote: post #19

LMAO why dont they sing themselves? Sorry as it seems the lyrics are nothing without the artist performing it, just letters in your notes.

That cuts both ways, doesn’t it? Without any songs what does it matter how beautiful your voice is?

This is like saying Taylor Swift's grocery store deserves a cut of her royalties because she wouldn't be able to sing if she starved to death.

Song-writers get paid poorly because there is more supply of pop songs than demand for them. Taylor Swift's grocery store doesn't get a cut of her revenue because Taylor Swift could easily just switch to another grocery store. The same as she could easily switch to another song-writer (or write her own songs).

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#174

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

mc32 wrote: post #108
antasvara wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the line is pretty well defined. If a songwriter writes a song specifically for an artist, that doesn't indicate any less skill and definitely doesn't mean the artist added anything meaningful. That song could have just as easily (as in the Elvis example) been recorded by another artist. That's akin to saying that I took inspiration from the Harry Potter books, so I should give JK Rowling a cut of my book dea…

It’d be like movie producers taking a cut from film scores or songs because they influenced the score or music.

Or like Gene Roddenberry writing some cheap lyrics to the Star Trek theme so he'd get a 50% split of the publishing with composer Alexander Courage.

The lyrics were never used. Because the lyrics were never supposed to be used.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#175

Post by rgifford »

A friend of mine decided to pursue music production around the same time I started in software engineering. We're both 20 somethings. We swap war stories now and then.

I get to hear about how he's working with his mentor to do vocal production on a track getting pitched for Maroon 5, The Chainsmokers, etc. Sometimes the tracks take -- the artist likes them and decides to move forward. Usually they don't and it's a lot of getting your hopes up for nothing. These major artists have lots of songs getting thrown at them on any given day. To date some of my friends biggest credits are vocal production credits on a couple billboard top 100s. A single track will have 50 names on it between writing, production, studio performance, etc.

My friend's mentor is late 30s and mainly does songwriting. He's been trying to do a solo thing but just isn't marketable. However, just recently he "made" it with a feature on a top 100 song and a couple songs picked up by major artists. The checks cleared this last year but the songs came out a couple years ago. He went from "how do I pay rent" to 7M literally over night. He moved to WA to dodge CA income tax. My friend has been able to tie a couple big checks together over the years, but it's been tough. One year it's 100k, the next it's 20k and all from ads and random tv shows.

I'm consistently shocked when talking with my friend just how little music matters in the music industry. The people who make the most look good, sound good, and hell they're crazy talented. But they aren't the people who've written the lyrics or the melodies that define our culture. We probably can't name those people.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#176

Post by emodendroket »

vagrantJin wrote: post #169
emodendroket wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked this up and while some of her older hits were just credited to her, a really impressive number of them were co-written by Liz Rose, who I’ve never even heard of.

> I looked this up and while some of her older hits were just credited to her Haha. "Some". I think if we dove deeper we'll find that number shockingly close to zero.

Two of six tracks on her first album. Didn’t check the others.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#177

Post by emodendroket »

pumaontheprowl wrote: post #173
emodendroket wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cuts both ways, doesn’t it? Without any songs what does it matter how beautiful your voice is?

This is like saying Taylor Swift's grocery store deserves a cut of her royalties because she wouldn't be able to sing if she starved to death. Song-writers get paid poorly because there is more supply of pop songs than demand for them. Taylor Swift's grocery store doesn't get a cut of her revenue because Taylor Swift could easily just switch to another grocery store. The same as she could easily switch to another son…

They do get a cut of her royalties, when she goes there to buy food. I’d question your assertion that one songwriter is just as good as another when we consider how many hits can be attributed to the same people if you actually check.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#178

Post by emodendroket »

mmatoscom wrote: post #164
emodendroket wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That cuts both ways, doesn’t it? Without any songs what does it matter how beautiful your voice is?

Actual success singers are your answer

No idea how that answers my question.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#179

Post by apercu »

runevault wrote: post #126
apercu wrote: post #100

It feels like in order to have this conversation intelligently, we all need to me on the same page about how royalties work, and the difference in royalty types (at least mechanical vs performance royalties).

It isn't necessarily how they work. It's that people are wanting cuts from both pies instead of only the pie for the work they did.

There's a lot of nuance here, though. Say that the song kicks around and kicks around a bunch of artists refuse it and then eventually an artist makes some changes to it and personalizes it, records it and makes it big. All of a sudden, because of the promotion behind that artist or whatever, the song has a lot of value. And the artists wanted points before they invested the time or whatever in to it.

I'm not saying that its right, only we always want to simplify things that aren't really simple.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#180

Post by 0_____0 »

harrisonjackson wrote: post #136
gamblor956 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Katy Perry found success as a songwriter before she found success as a singer, and has written songs for Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, Selena Gomez, and Nikki Minaj, among others. ( https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/katy-perry-wr... ) Most of her own songs are co-written in studio with her collaborators on the song (meaning the feat artist and the producers), with each collaborator pitching in or more…

I think they mean "Katy Perry" and "Ariana Grande" are fictional characters as the public knows them. They are characters played by two artists and supported by media/storytelling.

This reminds me a bit of what I've heard about pro wrestling. There's a bit more story and theater to pro wrestling, but a lot of times the characters' personality derives from the person 'playing' them, with the knob turned to 12.
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