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Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#121

Post by handelaar »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #32
cmiles74 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case the writers are talking about "publishing" rights which are distinct and separate from the sound recording (I believe those are called the "master" rights). ---- Copyright is split into two main sections: copyright in the song (known as publishing rights) and copyright in the sound recording (known as master rights). The publisher only deals with the publishing right, which is the songwriting side and in…

In the US a performer still receives nothing when the song is played on the radio, all the royalties go to the writers: https://soundcharts.com/blog/radio-royalties#why-songwriters...

No. This is a subtle difference but a very important one. In the US, the performance right on broadcast radio is not collected at all. The publishing rights are collected on.

That's really not the same thing as "publishers take all the money".

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#122

Post by Kaze404 »

nemo44x wrote: post #102
Kaze404 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you not think pop songs are artistically interesting?

It’s all aesthetics to be sure but a lot of pop music doesn’t take risks. Song structures are formulaic as are chord progressions and the notes used for melodies. How many hit songs use the same I-V-vi-IV progression? It works is why but it isn’t interesting to a discerning listener. It seems like a lot of pop music is more like fashion than music. Image leads and after removing the stylistic facade you see the same…

That's fair criticism, but I don't think it makes pop music any less artistic. There's something to be said about music that goes beyond the listener's ears and also taps into fashion, make-up trends, viral dances and that kind of stuff. That's where the risk is, and while it's paid off in the past (like Lady Gaga, David Bowie, etc), there's also numerous cases where it didn't as much (Ava Max, Viktoria Modesta).

I also believe there's artistic value in music that understands it's just ear-candy and doesn't try to be something else. In a world where so many people are trying to score a hit with the same chord progression for example, the ones that succeed stand out in other factors, and in my opinion it doesn't matter if it's some catchy verse on the refrain or something about the performer like Lady Gaga's provocative performances back in the early 2010s.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#123

Post by Kaze404 »

youngNed wrote: post #87
Kaze404 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be proud even if it wasn't a massive hit. It's an insanely catchy song, performed by two women who deliver the lines perfectly, on top of a very creative production (I especially like the repetitive "there's some hoes in this house" line that plays throughout the entire song). I don't think it's fair to the people involved to paint it something it's not just because the sexual language makes you uncomfortable.

that line is actualy a sample from a 1992 song, so presumably frank ski got a cut: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IHUl8CwCvI

Interesting, I had no idea. Thank you :)

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#124

Post by gamblor956 »

HiroshiSan wrote: post #26
hristov wrote: post #12

This unfortunately has been a long used tactic in the music world. In the old times it was sharpie producers putting their names as writers for songs of poor black artists, so they (the producers) can get royalties in addition to their usual fees. Now it is the singers taking advantage of the songwriters and composers. It is all evil but it kind of shows who has the negotiation leverage. Todays pop music scene is all…

As a huge fan of blackpink I highly recommend you check out the documentary they have on Netflix. It became obvious after watching it that the genius behind blackpink is Teddy Park, who was also behind another massively successful girl group 2NE1. I've thought about it slightly and without Teddy Park there is no blackpink, but without the individual members each bringing their own flavour to the group, there is no bl…

Katy Perry found success as a songwriter before she found success as a singer, and has written songs for Britney Spears, Kelly Clarkson, Selena Gomez, and Nikki Minaj, among others. (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/katy-perry-wr...) Most of her own songs are co-written in studio with her collaborators on the song (meaning the feat artist and the producers), with each collaborator pitching in or more of the hooks or verses.

Ariana Grande has written a few of her own songs (though none of these were released as singles).

Perhaps you meant that neither Katy Perry or Ariana Grande are composers (who write the instrumental portion of the song)?

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#125

Post by S_A_P »

iams wrote: post #88
S_A_P wrote: post #54

It seems as though this is not a well understood issue from reading the comments here. This isn’t artists doing interviews and saying “I wrote this”. The problem is that the artists are bullying their way into getting points for the song writing credits (publishing royalties) when they had little(change a word in the lyrics) or no input into the song. I fully support artists getting as much of the live performance/me…

It's not like 10% of sales goes to the song writer, so the artist changing a word means that the artist gets and additional 1% and the song writer only 9%. Surely at the point of producing a contract everyone negotiates the split and signs the contract if they are happy with the deal.

Think of it as separate pies. Album sales will be split into at least 3 pieces. Album sales are the first pie. Firstly the label will have to recoup cost of production, sample clearance, video production etc to recoup. The producers and songwriters will likely get paid here as well, but the artist will get paid only after it recoups. Fuzzy math comes into play here and 10 million selling albums may never recoup...

Next there is the mechanical royalties that come from radio play, streaming, licensing agreements, etc. Those largely go to the owner of the composition(e.g. songwriter) from 25% up to 90ish percent depending on the publishing deal.

The live performance aspect is where the artist can rake it in if they play things smart. The live show largely goes to the artist(*as long as there is not a 360 deal in place*) They can charge what they can get, and sell merch at the show. If they produce their own merch they can probably net a nice profit. If they let a merch company "handle it for them" they will see 10 cents on the dollar or less. Artists can get into trouble if they make their shows too big and would only break even/run at a loss.

360 deals are a particularly insidious anti artist beast. Basically the label throws their might behind the artist and gets a large cut of ALL aspects of the money they make being an artist.(live shows,merch, everything) I suspect many of the big names at least start out in a 360 deal these days, and may have negotiating power once they become Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga or Ariana Grande.

Songwriters probably have the least negotiating power in this situation. When an artist has 50 songwriting teams throwing tracks their way, a suboptimal deal may have to be accepted just to have a shot at making the album. While I am not saying songwriting is not a talent(it most certainly is), unfortunately more people have said talent than there are A-List stars.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#126

Post by runevault »

apercu wrote: post #100

It feels like in order to have this conversation intelligently, we all need to me on the same page about how royalties work, and the difference in royalty types (at least mechanical vs performance royalties).

It isn't necessarily how they work. It's that people are wanting cuts from both pies instead of only the pie for the work they did.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#127

Post by exactlysolved »

iams wrote: post #88
S_A_P wrote: post #54

It seems as though this is not a well understood issue from reading the comments here. This isn’t artists doing interviews and saying “I wrote this”. The problem is that the artists are bullying their way into getting points for the song writing credits (publishing royalties) when they had little(change a word in the lyrics) or no input into the song. I fully support artists getting as much of the live performance/me…

It's not like 10% of sales goes to the song writer, so the artist changing a word means that the artist gets and additional 1% and the song writer only 9%. Surely at the point of producing a contract everyone negotiates the split and signs the contract if they are happy with the deal.

Sorry, but this is wrong. First of all the rates for publishing royalties are standardized and typically wouldn't be renegotiated on a song-by-song or project-by-project basis. So it is very similar to '10% of sales goes to the song writer'.

Equally important is the fact that a share of publishing means a share of all sorts of royalties which aren't negotiated case by case. For example for playing the song on the radio, in restaurants, on TV shows, etc. But even more insidiously, it applies to cover versions. So if Elvis Presley gets a 50% songwriting credit, he will then take 50% of the portion due to the songwriter on any version recorded or played live by anyone (who hasn't added the 'Presley magic'), at any time in the future.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#128

Post by gamblor956 »

Pet_Ant wrote: post #97
jahnu wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performers who don't write or produce their own material are still artists and are as legitimate as any others!

I'd say they are performers not artists. The girl running Photoshop is an artist, the HP LaserJet that prints it out isn't. We don't consider choir members to be artists, but if it's just one voice we assume they are?

Members of the choir are performing artists. They make artistic choices related to the actual performance of the song, like how to sing the words written on the page.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#129

Post by dundercoder »

I have two music albums out, and I don't ever hesitate to tell people when I wrote, co-wrote, or re-arranged a song.

It never made me feel less accomplished to admit when I didn't write something.

That said, most of the time people just assume I wrote them all, unless they recognize the cover's original.

Re: Hit songwriters ask pop stars to stop taking credit for songs they didn't write

#130

Post by anonAndOn »

hashkb wrote: post #46
HiroshiSan wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a huge fan of blackpink I highly recommend you check out the documentary they have on Netflix. It became obvious after watching it that the genius behind blackpink is Teddy Park, who was also behind another massively successful girl group 2NE1. I've thought about it slightly and without Teddy Park there is no blackpink, but without the individual members each bringing their own flavour to the group, there is no bl…

With these types of "manufactured" performance groups I don't think there's any question that they are not composers. The Lady Gaga case (she promotes herself as a composer / guitarist / pianist) is much more of an intentional mislead, in my opinion.

Stefani Germanotta is a singer, songwriter, musician, actor and dancer of EGOT caliber. She's not just a pretty face, the lady has mad skillz.
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