Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are so focused on economic inequality that you ignore the greater picture: there will still be a hierarchy. There will still be humans dominating other humans and asserting themselves above them. Maybe in the far future humans will create a social technology to live in true equality but in the immediate future this is clearly not happening. As long as there is a hierarchy, you cannot really have equality, sorry.…
It is not the existence of hierarchy that is the problem. It is the type of hierarchy and the effects of that hierarchy. The parent and the study argue that we should give greater resources to those with the least resources in such a way as to broaden access to opportunities. You can argue that is not worth the expense (it costs X to produce Y outcome and redistributing X would lead to negative impact Z. Y + Z result…
Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
171–180 of 225 posts
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just about "rewarding", or giving out high paying position to who we want to. There are real and difficult things to do in the world that some other people need. They (employers, clients, customers) decide that this work is so important to them that they exchange money for it. Then the person can use that earned money to improve their life. For example if a top surgeon flies to a different country to do a di…
Agree with everything you said on the surface. Sounds reasonable. Of course we want the surgeon to be prepared for his job. It's important. But then there are those in this thread arguing that Elon Musk's reward should be unlimited because he's "arguably ensuring the long-term survivability of our species." Wow, that sounds very important. I guess he should have the most money then. Nevermind the fact that the majori…
There are things that make people more efficient as a homo sapiens and we want them to enjoy those things and not to worry and stress various annoyances so they can concentrate on what they are best at.
But as you say it's obviously not like that for CEOs of big companies. Just because Bill Gates was good at selling software doesn't mean he should hold this immense power in the world and decide how to allocate resources between vaccines and cancer research etc. It has nothing to do with his meritocratic expertise (of course he pays his own experts, but he does maintain the high level control). Some would argue that this value was all created as additional value by him via the efficiencies enabled by the software and that it wasn't merely captured out of existing value. It's obviously a combination, but based on ideology people estimate it differently. We know that rent seeking and dark pattern business practices exist, as do lobbying and other forms of corruption.
The billionaire examples aren't examples of meritocracy but of rewarding luck. Nobody would say that as a human Elon Musk is literally that much more competent than, say, the best senior engineer at Tesla.
But also, beyond a certain point rich people aren't people any more, more like institutions. They just channel that wealth in different directions, they cannot "enjoy" a significant potion of it as a human being. All that money gets rotated back into salaries of others, else it would remain just numbers in databases. It cannot meaningfully accumulate. Just like if you burn a bag of cash, you induce minuscule inflation effects and everybody else's money increases in value a little bit. If a billionaire sits on his cash, it's as if he didn't have it. But when he uses it, he pays salaries and makes people do stuff. The problem is when this stuff is "the wrong thing".
I think the main argument against billionaire power is that the distributed wisdom of crowds and markets are better at allocation and deciding what's worth doing than centralizing it without limit. It's good to centralize it as long as it's about merit and related to expertise or capacity, but not beyond that. Billionaires are way beyond human scale regarding that.
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#173Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you suggesting you'd kill someone if they tried to tax you slightly more highly? Or if they took some of your child's inheritance according to a means tested solution? That is very weird.
My means tested solution is if someone tried to take my resources I will weigh killing them against the consequences of killing them. Their life would have no value in the calculation.
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two complicating aspects I just randomly thought up: - the money lending business may not like the fact that their clients are becoming self sufficient and may increase the interest rate to punish such attempts - crabs in a bucket phenomenon. Not every culture is like the US. In many places it's considered a bad thing to stick out from your environment, family, neighborhood etc. and in poverty you need the goodwill o…
If the money lending business had the power to unilaterally raise the interest rate, wouldn't it have done so already?
If you run a usury business, you want your clients to be spending a good chunk of the money on stuff like alcohol and cigarettes, so they keep coming back and it remains stable. Once your clients escape their trap, they may qualify for better credit options.
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Heritability of IQ is >50%, and IQ is a good measure of smartness.
Heritability and genetic factors are overlapping but distinct things - for example, socioeconomic status influences many aspects, is hereditary but not genetic.
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#176Please note that this study is in the context of extreme poverty in populations such as rural villages in Bangladesh. It’s an interesting study and worth reading if you’re interested in what it takes to lift these populations out of poverty. The authors propose that their extreme poverty is a meta-stable state that prevents them from accessing wealth-building opportunities. The authors show that time-limited wealth t…
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#177These conclusions apply to the third world, not the rest of us. Here in Europe for example, anyone can study and become an entrepreneur (I did it, with pretty much 0 wealth in the family).
> anyone can study and become an entrepreneur Let's say I want to become a doctor and not an entrepreneur?
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are so focused on economic inequality that you ignore the greater picture: there will still be a hierarchy. There will still be humans dominating other humans and asserting themselves above them. Maybe in the far future humans will create a social technology to live in true equality but in the immediate future this is clearly not happening. As long as there is a hierarchy, you cannot really have equality, sorry.…
Economic inequality within a developed nation is one of the least important kinds of inequality. I'd trade one standard deviation of income for one standard deviation of pretty much anything else, such as intelligence or attractiveness. The average person in a developed nation lives better than the kings and emperors of the past in material terms. They had a bigger dwelling, but I'd much rather live in a modern apart…
whereas the king was swimming in booty, and at the end of it all, that's what moves most of us mostly.
id argue few ppl really want a lambo for the engineering of it as a machine, they just want to be seen riding in it. 500 years ago a lambo was a fancy horse drawn carriage.
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not just about "rewarding", or giving out high paying position to who we want to. There are real and difficult things to do in the world that some other people need. They (employers, clients, customers) decide that this work is so important to them that they exchange money for it. Then the person can use that earned money to improve their life. For example if a top surgeon flies to a different country to do a di…
Agree with everything you said on the surface. Sounds reasonable. Of course we want the surgeon to be prepared for his job. It's important. But then there are those in this thread arguing that Elon Musk's reward should be unlimited because he's "arguably ensuring the long-term survivability of our species." Wow, that sounds very important. I guess he should have the most money then. Nevermind the fact that the majori…
The return on investment is the payment it is in our self-interest to give for this activity, because we want and need such work to be done (so that we can make use of the fruits of such ventures, instead of getting nothing at all when wealth is squandered on bad ideas or just plain old consumption).
Re: Evidence on Poverty Traps from Rural Bangladesh [pdf]
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unequal distribution of rewards (i.e. according to merit) is fine and desirable (as a motivating force). The problem's roots are when the distribution of rewards becomes hereditary , that the children of the wealthy have near-guaranteed access to the best educational and social institutions, have near-guaranteed access to startup capital (i.e. from their parents), are usually provided with necessities (food, housing,…
Then add in a tax system which aggressively taxes labor while leaving capital and inheritance untaxed, if we stopped taxing labor that might be enough to pull a whole chunk of labor out of poverty, just having work is no escape from poverty in a world of high rent and high income tax.