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Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

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Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#171

Post by pyre »

wccrawford wrote: post #115
cabalamat wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if you want the content owner to sell it to you directly, you'll have to wait for them want to do so. .. or use BitTorrent! If the content owner refuses to sell the content to someone, then that person isn't depriving them of any income by pirating it. If an activity harms no-one, then it can't be immoral to do it. If the law says otherwise, it's a bad law.

If someone refuses to sell you the Mona Lisa for the price you want, it's okay to copy it? Because let's be honest, they aren't just refusing to sell the TV episode to you... They're refusing to sell it at market rates. If you offered them a million dollars for the latest episode of XYZ show, they'd make it happen on your schedule. What you're saying is that if you can't have it your way, it's perfectly ethical to ju…

It's a bit more than that because content consumption has become a large part of 'our' culture. So this encroaches more and more into the realm of restricting culture to the benefit of business.

A couple of points:

1. When you (content companies) spend exorbitant amounts of money on advertising/PR in an attempt to whip up a frenzy around consumption of your content, then don't act surprised when people mimic hard-drug addicts and lying,cheat,steal,etc just to be able to consume that content when they are prevented from consuming it otherwise. You're basically spending a lot of time trying to increase demand for your product. Now you've got so much demand that people are finding 'alternative' ways to obtain your product because you are unwilling or unable to provide a more legit avenue for them to obtain it.

2. The large and wide success of large content companies has brought content consumption (especially for particular brands) into the realm of popular culture. As the world becomes smaller and smaller due to the globalization effects of the Internet (amongst other things), the idea that you can easily divide people up by who is or isn't allowed to participate in that culture (and expect people to just abide by those proclamations) is foolish.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#172

Post by shalinmangar »

rick888 wrote: post #122
rimantas wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law was written way before there was possible to make an exact copy of something while leaving the original intact and way before the cost of such act is so close to zero than even those who have no money to buy original still are able to make the copy. One can apply the same laws, but doing so is stretching them too much. Consider the possibility of you making exact copy of a car just by pressing a button on som…

"The law was written way before there was possible to make an exact copy of something while leaving the original intact and way before the cost of such act is so close to zero than even those who have no money to buy original still are able to make the copy." Piracy is a form of counterfeiting, not stealing. "and to top all that I also buy a DVD? How about now, is it still the theft?" Because most people who pirate d…

"Well, it still has destroyed these industries."

No, the industries have destroyed themselves by letting piracy go out of hand when they could have done something about the root causes of piracy. Instead, they have focused their efforts on treating the symptoms and not the disease.

What can they do now? They can make it available, convenient and priced reasonably. Piracy may never go away but giving people an option between illegal and legal means of obtaining content can improve their chances of making money.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#173

Post by adambyrtek »

jerf wrote: post #133
tomjen3 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it? I can see the argument for torrent over buy, but not really torrent over nothing.

"Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it?" Devil's advocate: You spend time consuming the thing you torrented instead of buying something that was legally available to you and consuming that instead. But yes, this is getting to "penumbric emanation"-level of arguing, though I think that the limited nature of your time is…

So if I sit idle instead of consuming this means I'm stealing? On the other hand, you admitted yourself that this reasoning doesn't make much sense.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#174

Post by bonzoesc »

Splines wrote: post #163
bonzoesc wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is a symptom of the decadence and entitlement of your typical Internet user. If somebody doesn't want you to have a thing they made, why not do without instead of acting against their wishes, taking it illegally, and rationalizing it?

Because it's easy, and the costs are low? I sometimes torrent TV shows that I forgot to DVR and don't really feel bad about it. It really is a symptom of the decadence and entitlement of your typical Internet user. If the entire internet disappeared tomorrow, am I allowed to complain about it? Where do you draw the line? ("Be thankful for your brocolli, there are starving children in Africa")

Breaking car windows with spark plug ceramic is easy and just like piracy, you don't directly bear the costs. Cheap and easy isn't a justification for immoral behavior.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#175

Post by Psyonic »

jerf wrote: post #133
tomjen3 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it? I can see the argument for torrent over buy, but not really torrent over nothing.

"Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it?" Devil's advocate: You spend time consuming the thing you torrented instead of buying something that was legally available to you and consuming that instead. But yes, this is getting to "penumbric emanation"-level of arguing, though I think that the limited nature of your time is…

Likewise: If the thing that isn't legally available to you is "the best use of your limited time," then you should accept no substitute and acquire it anyway, as otherwise your limited time is being wasted. No?

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#176

Post by ericd »

krschultz wrote: post #148
ericd wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gather from your comments that your moral code depends heavily on the rule of law. Many people don't base their moral code very heavily on the laws currently on the books, except as far as those laws reflect the original intent of law - to make the world a better place to live overall. It's generally agreed upon that stealing physical goods, murdering, etc. make the world a more unruly, unpleasant, inefficient, dis…

If filesharing undermines the creators to the point where they stop creating, will the world be a better place? In case you haven't noticed, we've had YouTube for years but the home-made movies are not on the same level as the ones produced by the major studies. Most indy bands are good, but can't reach their full potential without financial support. Filesharing undermines that whole system, especially because it wou…

Good question, but the more important one is whether filesharing is doing that. This is where the question of whether someone would have bought something otherwise or not comes in.

Anecdotally, most of the people I know who fileshare just consume more now than they did, in a wider variety. Some of them have stopped buying stuff, but most of them haven't, and many went to Hulu, iTunes, Grooveshark, Pandora, etc. as soon as those became a good enough alternative.

You don't need to prevent it completely, that's putting your eyes on the wrong goal (though this seems to be the tack that they're taking). You just need to make the alternative as easy or easier and inexpensive enough to not think too much about if you're moderately well off. It's a stupid company that tries to force their market to act in the way they want it to, rather than finding a way to cater to them.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#177

Post by ericd »

roel_v wrote: post #138
steve19 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't confuse copyright infringement, aka. pirating, to stealing. You may well believe that they are morally the same thing, but they are not legally the same thing. Theft has existed as long as man, copyright infringement was invented about 100 years ago. copyright infringement varies wildly in penalties. In some countries it is a serious offense, in others it is legal.

I'm a lawyer, thank you very much, I know perfectly well about the difference, and this is another thing I'm sick and tired of - people making minute semantic arguments that have nothing to do with the substance of the matter. Note that nowhere I equated piracy with stealing, exactly because I know that when I do somebody will come with this remark. While we're nitpicking, your second sentence contradicts itself - if…

Ah that might explain why your moral code seems to draw from legality.

It's not nitpicking to separate theft from copyright infringement - they have very different effects on the owner, and to conflate the two is basically spreading FUD to confuse the argument. They should not be treated the same way by the law, despite what the rightsholders might like.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#178

Post by mhd »

kahawe wrote: post #126
CrazedGeek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure you have to pay the license fee? http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/wh... seems to suggest otherwise.

Sorry, this was mis-leading... I was actually talking about the German GEMA rules and only used the BBC website as an example for "license fee" since I am not sure this is the correct translation for what the German GEMA and that "tax on radio and tv" is all about and I doubt anything like that exists in the USA.

Erm, I think you're confusing the GEMA with the GEZ, which would be the equivalent of the British TV licenses, i.e. your fee for state-run broadcasts. Not aware of any equivalents in the US, things like C-Span, PBS and NPR are more independent if I'm not mistaken.

The GEMA is something entirely different, about as capitalistic as you can get get. And so to no surprise there are equivalents in the US, e.g. BMI and the Harry Fox Agency.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#179

Post by warseph »

mauriciob wrote: post #134
warseph wrote: post #121

Same thing happens in Argentina, I tried some times to buy certain games online, but for some weird reason for digital content, the purchased is limited to the US and Mexico. Why does this limitation even exist for digital content?

I've only seen one Steam game that couldn't be bought in Brazil (I still don't know why). I'm guessing it depends at which store you are buying it. Many of the US stores don't sell to foreigners, though. Could they be afraid of fraud?

I saw it in several games in Direct2Drive, (this games had the same restrictions in other online stores). I don't think is fraud though, as the same site sells other games to Argentina. This is what direct2drive says on the matter: Why are some games "country restricted" ? This is a limitation set by either the game developer or the internet distribution laws your country. We have to abide by both of their wishes.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#180

Post by rmc »

smackfu wrote: post #141
billpg wrote: post #74

As someone with money who enjoys a lot of American TV, I'm not really interested in excuses why these services are not available worldwide. Quit making excuses and make it happen. The torrenters don't seem to have any trouble building a global distribution network, and they are hiding from the law while simultaneously kicking your butt. If you don't want to make it happen, quit whining about losing money. I have mone…

What a silly argument. "Just make it happen!" What do you do in the case where a show is shown on ABC in the US and Channel 4 in the UK, and they both have online streaming? How do you just make that happen? Who is going to give up their rights to broadcast online? Are you just going to wish the contracts away? Yes, the torrenters have no problem avoiding the legal limits because they are illegal, that's not an answe…

There are several cases where this happens already. Many TV shows/films are licensed to Irish and British TV stations, however many people in Ireland get BBC et al, so these people can see it twice. Everyone is happy with this system.
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