Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#141

Post by smackfu » Thu, May 12, 2011, 3:59 PM UTC

billpg wrote: post #74

As someone with money who enjoys a lot of American TV, I'm not really interested in excuses why these services are not available worldwide. Quit making excuses and make it happen. The torrenters don't seem to have any trouble building a global distribution network, and they are hiding from the law while simultaneously kicking your butt. If you don't want to make it happen, quit whining about losing money. I have mone…

What a silly argument. "Just make it happen!"

What do you do in the case where a show is shown on ABC in the US and Channel 4 in the UK, and they both have online streaming? How do you just make that happen? Who is going to give up their rights to broadcast online? Are you just going to wish the contracts away? Yes, the torrenters have no problem avoiding the legal limits because they are illegal, that's not an answer.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#142

Post by res0nat0r » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:02 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #90

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true - it doesn't make it right (necessarily) but it is true. The other thing I'd say though is that most people will still operate within their own moral code. In the UK technically platform shifting (transferring music from CD to MP3 for instance) is illegal but that doesn't stop anyone as people see it as a historic oddity and not something which is even remotely morally wrong. It's not uncommon that the s…

Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it? I can see the argument for torrent over buy, but not really torrent over nothing.

Just because you never would have paid for it doesn't give you the automatic right to view/listen/consume it.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#143

Post by smackfu » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:12 PM UTC

oemera wrote: post #55

Wait. This is YCombinator right? Why on earth does no-one create a startup to make buying digital copies easier wherever you live? Why is that so hard?

Step 1: Get worldwide rights to desirable content.

No one has ever gotten past step one.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#144

Post by maw » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

hxa7241 wrote: post #140

roel_v wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and a 250k Lamborghini is also a huge budget hit for me in the West. Which is why I drive a shitty Citroen. I'm sick and tired of the entitled whining. Nobody owes you the right to listen to the latest album of whoever is at the top of the charts; in fact, nobody owes you anything but what they agreed on. The proposition is very clear: there are people who create something. They give it to you, on the conditio…

The morality is quite different to physical goods. Infringement is a malum prohibitum not a malum in se . Copying is not immoral in itself. Quite the opposite: it is something we would want to encourage. It can only really be immoral in so far as the law is moral . And the law is only moral in that it serves an economic purpose -- that is, to be clear, it serves us overall. The law is not there to 'protect' or benefi…

Not sure I agree. The two mala can overlap; in the realm of unauthorized copying, I think that they sometimes, but not always, do. It's complicated.

What's clear, though, and where I'm pretty sure we'd agree, is that rhetoric conflating unauthorized copying with traditional forms of stealing doesn't stand up to much scrutiny. It isn't at all like taking somebody's food or jumping out of a taxi without paying.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#145

Post by krschultz » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

ashconnor wrote: post #101

RealGeek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The delay in geographical releases is because studios license the copyrights to a regional studio or a distribution company. Unfortunately, this arrangements prohibits them to use any alternate distribution channels to release the content on their own. Also, the regional company is unlikely to have any arrangements with services like Netflix and Hulu. In the end its all about the money and bureaucracy.

Surely they realise they are losing money?

Are they losing money? If you canabalize your existing revenue stream by destroying distributor relationships in exchange for a new revenue stream that is tiny, you will lose money. Contrary to popular belief, most of the people making lots of money as executives are not stupid. They just have more data than the arm-chair quarterbacks have. What seems 'obvious' to us hackers is not always as clear cut when you have the numbers in front of you.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#146

Post by maw » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:39 PM UTC

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #40

gcb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

slicing up markets artificially is the first sign of collusion, cartels.

In this case the boundaries aren't artificial, they're historic. The world will move to laws which are unified (or at least close enough) and allow day and date releases and true international markets but it's unrealistic to expect it to happen overnight. But a resistance to change (some of which will have it's feet in positive intentions, some in negative) is different to collusion.

In this case the boundaries aren't artificial, they're historic.

They can be both, actually.

The world will move to laws which are unified (or at least close enough) and allow day and date releases and true international markets but it's unrealistic to expect it to happen overnight.

I hope you're right about this.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#147

Post by bonzoesc » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

markokocic wrote: post #53

Well, this is just rationalizing. Stealing something (or obtaining it illegally) just because someone doesn't want to sell it to you (or give it to you for free) is still stealing (or obtaining it illegally), regardless of the fact that you want it so bad. As long as you own something, you have the right to choose if you want to sell it to some country, give it for free or do whatever else.

It really is a symptom of the decadence and entitlement of your typical Internet user. If somebody doesn't want you to have a thing they made, why not do without instead of acting against their wishes, taking it illegally, and rationalizing it?

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#148

Post by krschultz » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:42 PM UTC

ericd wrote: post #47

roel_v wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and a 250k Lamborghini is also a huge budget hit for me in the West. Which is why I drive a shitty Citroen. I'm sick and tired of the entitled whining. Nobody owes you the right to listen to the latest album of whoever is at the top of the charts; in fact, nobody owes you anything but what they agreed on. The proposition is very clear: there are people who create something. They give it to you, on the conditio…

I gather from your comments that your moral code depends heavily on the rule of law. Many people don't base their moral code very heavily on the laws currently on the books, except as far as those laws reflect the original intent of law - to make the world a better place to live overall. It's generally agreed upon that stealing physical goods, murdering, etc. make the world a more unruly, unpleasant, inefficient, dis…

If filesharing undermines the creators to the point where they stop creating, will the world be a better place? In case you haven't noticed, we've had YouTube for years but the home-made movies are not on the same level as the ones produced by the major studies. Most indy bands are good, but can't reach their full potential without financial support. Filesharing undermines that whole system, especially because it would be near technically impossible to prevent something from being shared in all countries except those where the work is not being sold.

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#149

Post by masterzora » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:45 PM UTC

res0nat0r wrote: post #142

tomjen3 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if there is no chance that I ever buy something (say because it is not available for sale) what does it matter if I download it? I can see the argument for torrent over buy, but not really torrent over nothing.

Just because you never would have paid for it doesn't give you the automatic right to view/listen/consume it.

Clearly. Fortunately, nobody's arguing that it does give you such a right. The question at hand is "what harm does it do?", however, and the GP posits that the answer is "none, so why care?".

Re: Why I get my entertainment via BitTorrent

#150

Post by acous » Thu, May 12, 2011, 4:46 PM UTC

vdm wrote: post #103

Nate75Sanders wrote: post #3

I try to explain this type of thing to people who are ardently anti-piracy: You can never, ever, expect people to miss out on the culture that's happening during their lives. If money, or geography, or whatever is preventing it, they'll still do the best they can to make sure they don't miss anything.

This is so true, and I reckon people in the US have no idea how crippled online access to entertainment is abroad. Moreover, culture is going global, which should be an opportunity, but in reality exacerbates the problem. Recently, while in Germany, I found Youtube content to be highly restricted. I could not view music videos that I can view in Ireland, and I find this arbitrary restriction oppressive. I would imagi…

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