Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

.NET Orleans

dotnet.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 287 posts

Re: .NET Orleans

#171

Post by manigandham »

pjmlp wrote: post #161
Thaxll wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure net core will remain for a long time in the enterprise world before making anything in the more open source / general public. It's 2020 I can't name a single server side known application built in net core.

Same here, our latest greenfield project was done in .NET Framework 4.7.2 and for the looks of it, the next one might be .NET Framework 4.8. There are plenty of enterprise stuff like SharePoint, Sitecore, GUI components based on commercial partners like Telerik and Component One, among many others that are still on an transition to Core. And for those that already moved there, their stability is still at v1.0 level,…

Why the long wait?

Re: .NET Orleans

#172

Post by pjmlp »

manigandham wrote: post #171
pjmlp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, our latest greenfield project was done in .NET Framework 4.7.2 and for the looks of it, the next one might be .NET Framework 4.8. There are plenty of enterprise stuff like SharePoint, Sitecore, GUI components based on commercial partners like Telerik and Component One, among many others that are still on an transition to Core. And for those that already moved there, their stability is still at v1.0 level,…

Why the long wait?

Because .NET Core isn't fully compatible with .NET Framework, and there are lots of stuff which people are willing to spend money porting them.

In the consulting business "I rewrote X in Y" blog posts only happen when someone takes the time to budget the project, because there is someone doing the math of developer time x cost per hour.

Then .NET Framework has been Windows specific for 20 years, there are lots of .NET libraries that are thin wrappers over Windows APIs, or interact with COM/UWP.

Porting them to Core means just rewriting everything from scratch, and if they are to remain anyway Windows specific, there is no advantage other than stay on reboot treadmill that Microsoft has started with the UWP/.NET Core (now backing off with Reunion), so they just keep doing .NET Framework as usual.

Re: .NET Orleans

#173

Post by pjmlp »

saagarjha wrote: post #160
pjmlp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked with .NET and Java since they exist, jumping between stacks either when moving between jobs or consulting projects, nowadays I tend to be more focused on .NET. Yet I don't see .NET getting on Java turf as much as many Internet thinks it can. It remains mostly a Windows stack (so many enterprise third party are yet to release Core stuff that is actually cross platform), and there are plenty of platforms…

Possibly, but the server JDK I’m running right now wasn’t ported by them ;)

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/09/22/microsoft-contrib...

The beauty of Java is that it is like C, plenty of implementations to choose from. :)

Re: .NET Orleans

#174

Post by kinjba11 »

cutler wrote: post #143
spaetzleesser wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. The Java ecosystem has almost everything you could ever imagine needing so it’s a safer bet. Maybe it’s not as shiny but it works. I don’t understand why MS doesn’t provide the ability to call Java code from .NET. It would open up a lot of libraries to the platform. Right now there are a lot of libraries that are first class in Java but have either no or only half baked .NET ports.

Which libraries? Could you give some examples?

Just off the top of my head, there are .NET copies of:

- Akka https://github.com/akka/akka - Lucene https://github.com/apache/lucene-solr - Aeron https://github.com/real-logic/aeron - Retrofit https://github.com/square/retrofit

Not to mention projects like Apache Spark, Cassandra, Elasticsearch, Druid - Java projects. Many projects (Foundation DB, Scylla DB, I could find more) will have in-house support for Java and not .NET.

The .NET equivalents to these libraries tend to be playing catch up. Xamarin Android will always be playing catch-up to Android's Java/Kotlin APIs for Android. Big machine learning projects like PyTorch and TensorFlow tend to give first-class support of some fashion to a Java API (mostly due to Android). Is there a .NET equivalent to Deeplearning4j? Hadoop? Hive? Kakfa?

In Java there is a proliferation of web projects: Spring, Vert.x, Quarkus, Micronaut, Play 2, Spark Java; Netty, Jetty, Apache. In .NET all you ever hear about is Microsoft projects ASP.NET core; Kestrel, IIS.

Working as a .NET dev, when there is an SDK, if it's not from Microsoft, it's clear the .NET SDK is a lower priority for bug fixes and new features compared to e.g. the Java/Python/etc.

Re: .NET Orleans

#175

Post by saagarjha »

pjmlp wrote: post #173
saagarjha wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but the server JDK I’m running right now wasn’t ported by them ;)

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/09/22/microsoft-contrib... The beauty of Java is that it is like C, plenty of implementations to choose from. :)

Yep, that’s all just posturing for now. The one I am using was OpenJDK ported by one guy separate from that effort ;)

Re: .NET Orleans

#176

Post by oaiey »

manigandham wrote: post #167
tempfs wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fast? #lolno

Do you have some evidence or more substantive feedback? Because I can show you the techempower benchmarks which have it in 1st and 3rd place at over 7 million rps: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=... I built an adtech platform doing millions of requests in 2010 in dotnet. Then I did it again doing billions of requests in 2012. Nothing else at the time other than java could come close with…

To be fair: .NET (Framework) was not fast in the past. It was not. It was really slow. It was exclusively on Windows, IIS, some worker module, piped through a Webforms optimized System.Web dll and most of that code not optimized for memory usage etc.

But that is over with modern .NET Core. Nothing of above is valid anymore and the result is wicked fast as your link shows as evidence.

Re: .NET Orleans

#177

Post by oaiey »

pjmlp wrote: post #156
tmpz22 wrote: post #81

I spent some time learning dotnet core this year and with the slow-grind progress Microsoft has made it really does look like the technology stack might start to replace Java, Go, Rails, NodeJS, over the next decade. You can really feel Microsoft's experience in language development and enterprise software development coming together to provide better ecosystem ergonomics than other frameworks and toolchains. Specifi…

I have worked with .NET and Java since they exist, jumping between stacks either when moving between jobs or consulting projects, nowadays I tend to be more focused on .NET. Yet I don't see .NET getting on Java turf as much as many Internet thinks it can. It remains mostly a Windows stack (so many enterprise third party are yet to release Core stuff that is actually cross platform), and there are plenty of platforms…

"Mostly Windows" is a limited view. Most modern .NET developments end up in a docker/kubernetes Linux container. In the first year of .NET Core some shops did Windows deployments but now, that is long gone.

But I agree. .NET will not replace Java or any other serious language.

Re: .NET Orleans

#178

Post by JamesBarney »

dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #91
tmpz22 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The coup de grace is functioning and sane server side rendering of ReactJS apps by c# applications. If Microsoft can make that easy and simple it will lead to a huge churn as many software companies replace less efficient nodeJS applications for that use case. Typescript will always have its placed client-side but there will be huge user benefits if we can have more and better server side rendering.

I really enjoy how TS is the same on server and client. The C# runtime is way richer, but I like the TS type system more. Not sure I’d want to use different platforms on backend/front end even if C# did server rendering like React.

Yeah this is one of the ways I think C# is clearly improvable is having a type system closer to TS.

Re: .NET Orleans

#179

Post by aliswe »

oaiey wrote: post #176
manigandham wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have some evidence or more substantive feedback? Because I can show you the techempower benchmarks which have it in 1st and 3rd place at over 7 million rps: https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r19&hw=... I built an adtech platform doing millions of requests in 2010 in dotnet. Then I did it again doing billions of requests in 2012. Nothing else at the time other than java could come close with…

To be fair: .NET (Framework) was not fast in the past. It was not. It was really slow. It was exclusively on Windows, IIS, some worker module, piped through a Webforms optimized System.Web dll and most of that code not optimized for memory usage etc. But that is over with modern .NET Core. Nothing of above is valid anymore and the result is wicked fast as your link shows as evidence.

Oaiey, .NET is not synonymous with WebForms.

Re: .NET Orleans

#180

Post by aliswe »

oaiey wrote: post #177
pjmlp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked with .NET and Java since they exist, jumping between stacks either when moving between jobs or consulting projects, nowadays I tend to be more focused on .NET. Yet I don't see .NET getting on Java turf as much as many Internet thinks it can. It remains mostly a Windows stack (so many enterprise third party are yet to release Core stuff that is actually cross platform), and there are plenty of platforms…

"Mostly Windows" is a limited view. Most modern .NET developments end up in a docker/kubernetes Linux container. In the first year of .NET Core some shops did Windows deployments but now, that is long gone. But I agree. .NET will not replace Java or any other serious language.

This is simply baffling.
Post reply on HN