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Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

bbc.com

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Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#171

Post by fakedang »

DanBC wrote: post #76
ornornor wrote: post #52

> why you aren‘t using reusable diapers in the first place. A good question indeed?

The main threat to the planet is CO2 and human generated climate change. How many people can find, and understand, the information about CO2 use across the total life of disposable nappies Vs cotton nappies? EDIT: here's an example analysis. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... It's 37 pages of detailed information that looks at the total life-cycle. > The average 2006 disposable nappy woul…

That last suggestion would be a nightmare to parents imo.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#173

Post by _ph_ »

Aperocky wrote: post #165
_ph_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true on many accounts. The decision to phase out nuclear energy was taken in the beginning of the 2000 years. There was some extension of the operating time when Merkel came to power, which was taken back after Fukushima. This also affects plants which are very old, so would need to be replaced or undergo some severe modernisation anyway. There have been no new German nuclear power plants since the early…

All fair, but 30% is not a small slice. All of that need to be replaced by something else, and the only thing that's quick enough to replace it was fossil fuel. Germany is also not exactly the ideal place for solar power generation. It's still leave people scratching over why you guys ditched nuclear energy. The newer version of nuclear reactors are safer than fossil when you factor in pollution, and EU itself has ex…

German nuclear power was not replaced by fossil fuel, but by renewables. For this year so far, 54% of the German electricity came from renewables, 12% nuclear, 21% coal. Solar alone has eclipsed nuclear with 13%. The installed solar peak capacity is 48 GW, wind is 60 GW, on windy days the production of wind power alone eclipses French nuclear output. Solar peaked at 27 GW at noon today.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#174

Post by _ph_ »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #163
_ph_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? Germany is a net electricity exporter, we don't "depend" on French nuclear energy. But of course, Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on the load distribution and the weather, there is a lot of inporting on exporting, because eletricity is traded across long distances. While often there is a significant amount of elekt…

> So what was the reason for your house being cold other than the ill-timed rennovation? I was there for my Biodynamic farming apprenticeship, and that was just what it was. It was fine, and I spent quite a bit of time there I enjoyed my time there and it taught me a lot how to cope with issues with older homes and it helped me learn to do repairs where needed. > Germany is part of an Eurpean grid, so depending on th…

First of all, I want to point out that some parts you "quoted" in your answer were not written by me. It is quite a bit irritating how this appears.

And while the oldest plants were switched off after Fukushima, Germany didn't just "switch off" the nuclear production. The nuclear contribution to the electricity production gradually declined from 19% of all electricity in 2011 to 12% in 2020 so far. The next years should bring a steeper decline though, as more plants get phased out.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#175

Post by Youden »

amai wrote: post #115
gautamcgoel wrote: post #17

I lost interest in the city as soon as the article pointed out that the city's "environmentalism" was rooted in opposition to a nuclear power plant. This kind of thinking is backwards and self-destructive.

Actually your kind of thinking is backwards. Nowadays nuclear energy is the most expensive way to produce electricity: Nuclear energy: 102£/MWh Gas energy: 85£/MWh Offshore wind energy: 57£/MWh Onshore wind energy: 46£/MWh Solar energy: 44£/MWh https://www.carbonbrief.org/wind-and-solar-are-30-50-cheaper...

That's based on a single report produced by the UK and I don't think it's appropriate to damn the parent commenter so harshly based on that alone.

To contrast that report, in France, a country that actually uses nuclear power at scale, onshore wind is more expensive than nuclear and solar is only marginally cheaper [0].

And the renewables you mention aren't comparable to nuclear. Nuclear can be ramped up and down largely at will and doesn't really care what time of day it is or what the weather is like. Renewables need batteries. How does the cost work out when you include the energy storage needed to be as reliable as nuclear?

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source#...

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#176

Post by saiya-jin »

fluffy87 wrote: post #100
michaelscott wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what parent is saying and this Freiburg example is a good one: there are going to be situations and times (such as the birth of a newborn) where following strictly to the rules (you have a limited amount of trash to dispose) just isn't viable or even possible. Anything that deviates from the norm and established rules, even slightly, is at least frowned upon and at most results in a fine or some other ma…

No you are wrong. People living there have had children or have children. Everybody knows when making an exception is ok or not, or when the allocated trash associated to a household must be increase. The assumption that people living there are intolerant of babies and families is false.

On top of that there wasn't, and for Geneva isn't, any allocation of trash or similar stupidity. When I was moving out of Lausanne, they introduced special garbage bags that were supposed to be used (for our bin it was 2chf per piece), to pay for recycling. Avoiding those would be fined if found out.

But if I threw out 200 of them per month, that would be my own thing. Nobody frowns, complains, cares or anything. People just go about their lives in pretty sensible ways.

In Geneva, I can throw trash in Migros plastic bags if I want, nobody cares. No clue about current Zurich, 10 years ago I didn't pay anything neither.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#178

Post by lispm »

Aperocky wrote: post #165
_ph_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true on many accounts. The decision to phase out nuclear energy was taken in the beginning of the 2000 years. There was some extension of the operating time when Merkel came to power, which was taken back after Fukushima. This also affects plants which are very old, so would need to be replaced or undergo some severe modernisation anyway. There have been no new German nuclear power plants since the early…

All fair, but 30% is not a small slice. All of that need to be replaced by something else, and the only thing that's quick enough to replace it was fossil fuel. Germany is also not exactly the ideal place for solar power generation. It's still leave people scratching over why you guys ditched nuclear energy. The newer version of nuclear reactors are safer than fossil when you factor in pollution, and EU itself has ex…

The France expertise shows that they can't build nuclear reactors anymore. The ones they work on are many years late and costs are exploding.

The French nuclear industry is centralized and state-owned/run. Not everyone wants finds that model attractive.

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#179

Post by LockAndLol »

Fishysoup wrote: post #48
woodpanel wrote: post #43

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

This has been my experience with Germany / Switzerland as well. Very punishment-based

For a punishment-based society, I'd redirect your view to America with its high incarceration and recidivist rates. The rhetoric of "war on X" and being "tough on Y" as well as the penchant for violence is quite unique to that country. Telling someone publicly to get their act in order for the betterment of society is not very "punishment-based".

Re: Freiburg: Germany's futuristic city set in a forest

#180

Post by LockAndLol »

woodpanel wrote: post #43

Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately. Unfortunately, because once you allow to degrade strangers/neighbors in public for something malign like that, it doesn’t stop there. Because of this Vauban is not always admired, rather sometimes regarded as tax payer funded dystopia for upper class people to live in. E.g. your amount of thrash you can…

> Apparently, owning a car is the easiest way to commit social suicide in Vauban — That is the spirit unfortunately.

That's quite possibly the most American response you could provide. Though Germans value their cars (sometimes more than their wives), German society is quite focused on public transport and the availability thereof.

Furthermore, distancing ourselves from personal cars is among one of the best things we can do for the environment. We are experiencing the effects of car ownership right now with bad air / smog, traffic jams, noise and (very avoidable) accidents. Engines might have heralded a new age and while cars do represent transportational freedom, it's time we move away from them if we want to exist in a livable world.

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