China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs • Hacker News Board

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#171

Post by coldtea » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #151

cortesoft wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the ‘cancel culture’ comment is supposed to mean. There are a million tweets condemning China’s behavior... way more than the number of tweets targeting people who are ‘cancelled’ The difference is that tweets can effect a regular person’s life, and they are ‘cancelled’. China doesn’t care. A company will act to fire a single person who behaves badly because of consumer pressure; it doesn’t co…

A really good "code smell" for political bullshit is when a person or idea is simultaneously an ineffectual loser and a grave, powerful, insidious force. Closely related to the notion that the leader is simultaneously both a powerful winner and a powerless victim. "cancel culture" here is both powerful and dangerous enough to bring down Western civilization, yet so laughably weak it cannot even pretend to solve real…

>A really good "code smell" for political bullshit is when a person or idea is simultaneously an ineffectual loser and a grave, powerful, insidious force.

I've read that somewhere.

By the same "heuristic" anti-Trump talk is "political bullshit", because he is said to be simultanously a buffon/ineffectual loser and a very powerful insidious force.

But of course such heuristics are themselves usually selectively applied to opinions which those applying them already agree are "political bullshit".

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#172

Post by logicchains » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

take_a_breath wrote: post #132

harpiaharpyja wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to fall back into unsubstantiated hyperbole like "worst president in history" and "screwing the country" probably doesn't help to win anyone over.

Most job losses ever? Or highest deficits ever? Or highest unemployment rate ever? Does that win anyone over?

>Most job losses ever? Or highest deficits ever? Or highest unemployment rate ever?

>Does that win anyone over?

How can you blame Trump for that when the unemployment rate was the lowest in over a decade before 2020, and the job losses / fall in unemployment was due to lockdowns he didn't support? Overall the unemployment rate is much better in Red states, which have weaker or no lockdowns: https://www.aier.org/article/unemployment-far-worse-in-lockd...

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#173

Post by pessimizer » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:11 PM UTC

sol_invictus wrote: post #65

jialutu wrote: post #43

Do you guys remember when a Chinese soldier beat up someone who was holding the Koran? Well, except, it didn't happen: https://factcheck.afp.com/no-not-video-chinese-soldier-beati... Also, when are people going to stop using satellite imaging as a proof of evidence? I mean, let's not forget the whole casus belli for the last Iraq war, where there was clear evidence of WMDs from all those satellite images right? I mea…

Your entire comment history is pro-China comments. Are you just sitting by and waiting for a China-related article to pop up all day?

Is that somehow a terrible thing for a patriotic Chinese person who doesn't believe the details of the stories being used to gin up animus against their country? It isn't like you've had to look far for anti-Chinese sentiment coming from the US government since right after WWII.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#174

Post by derwiki » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #121

mc32 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a lowercase independent—for the life of me, why did the Democrat party choose the worst candidate of the lot two campaigns in a row? Biden has tons of baggage. If he had an (R) next to his name and nothing else in life different he’d be getting creamed for all his previous policies, stances and quotes. In addition, mentally he’s not lasting four years of intense presidential demands. In 2016 Clinton was Bush heav…

There’s something terrible about the primary system and it’s not obvious how to fix it. It is ostensibly more representative than the system which came before it, but honestly it seems in the past 20 years to have delivered extraordinarily low quality candidates for both parties more often than not. It’s not clear what the solution is though.

What was better about primary candidates pre-2000?

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#175

Post by FeepingCreature » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #151

cortesoft wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the ‘cancel culture’ comment is supposed to mean. There are a million tweets condemning China’s behavior... way more than the number of tweets targeting people who are ‘cancelled’ The difference is that tweets can effect a regular person’s life, and they are ‘cancelled’. China doesn’t care. A company will act to fire a single person who behaves badly because of consumer pressure; it doesn’t co…

A really good "code smell" for political bullshit is when a person or idea is simultaneously an ineffectual loser and a grave, powerful, insidious force. Closely related to the notion that the leader is simultaneously both a powerful winner and a powerless victim. "cancel culture" here is both powerful and dangerous enough to bring down Western civilization, yet so laughably weak it cannot even pretend to solve real…

The part that usually completes this idea is that the person or idea only has power because people give it to them. So the person in itself is not powerful but they are given power.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#176

Post by canada2020 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:12 PM UTC

Reposting the top comment on the article, was wondering what HN thought about this:

------------------------------------------------------

Godfree Roberts:

We created terrorists in Xinjiang, just as we did in Afghanistan. They murdered thousands of Chinese and, now that China has them under control, we make up stories about them.

US Ambassador Chas. H. Freeman, Director for Chinese Affairs at the U.S. Department of State from 1979-1981: "The CIA programs in Tibet, which were very effective in destabilizing it, did not succeed in Xinjiang. There were similar efforts made with the Uyghurs during the Cold War that never really got off the ground. In both cases you had religion waved as a banner in support of a desire for independence or autonomy which is, of course, is anathema to any state. I do believe that people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones applies here. I am part American Indian and those people are not here (in the US) in the numbers they once were because of severe genocidal policies on the part of the European majority”. 8/31/19

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#177

Post by banmeagaindan2 » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #109

banmeagaindan2 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's happening with me is that I don't trust USA news sources on this topic. It is possible something is horrible is happening but there is so much propaganda people who might normally be concerned with this suspect it's a misdirection or scapegoating because of the US's catastrophic response to COVID19 It's the same reason a lot of right wing people who wouldn't be in favour of police brutalizing don't speak up -…

Are they our values if we don’t stand up for them?

Values! Let's talk about what is happening this minute. Somebody just talked to me and then disappeared. All sorts of people with political opinions are self editing and deleting their own comments - or being banned or shadowbanned because their opinions don't fit consensus.

It is difficult for anybody to stand for their values in these conditions. China does not pretend to be a politically free society - but I believe I'd have a better shot freely talking about Western politics on a Chinese service than an American internet service today.

People with my opinions are not a threat to the CCP - so I would be left alone. The number of times I've been banned for speaking simple opinions that just don't conform to the consensus of the hour is more than I can count. All from American web services. Even Sam Altman - who owns some of those services has said the same. It's the synchronization that is causing all the overreactions and underreactions to events.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#178

Post by Darmody » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

qiqing wrote: post #117

Darmody wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I don't shut up.

Hypothetically, let's say you're a regular Chinese citizen concerned about human rights abuses and police brutality in the US. Can you roughly estimate the impact of your forum posts, boycotts, and all that on US government policy?

There's a huge difference. China needs the west to keep buying their stuff. China had a huge economic development thanks to the money from the west. They don't even have to care about their internal economy as long as billions and billions flow in from the west.

Now, if we change that by let's say moving factories back home or to Africa, they'll be in trouble.

If you're a Chinese citizen, first of all you don't have a voice. The CCP owns the country, they make the rules, and economically they don't have the upper hand. That's why the only thing they do is threaten any foreign official who won't submit to them.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#179

Post by coldtea » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:13 PM UTC

misja111 wrote: post #127

cortesoft wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand what the ‘cancel culture’ comment is supposed to mean. There are a million tweets condemning China’s behavior... way more than the number of tweets targeting people who are ‘cancelled’ The difference is that tweets can effect a regular person’s life, and they are ‘cancelled’. China doesn’t care. A company will act to fire a single person who behaves badly because of consumer pressure; it doesn’t co…

Cancel culture means boycotting public figures or companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. You are talking only about tweets but those have little to do with it. Boycotting China is definitely possible, simply stop buying their goods. Vote with your wallet! If enough people do this then it will definitely have an impact, possibly even enough to bring about some real chan…

>Boycotting China is definitely possible, simply stop buying their goods.

You'd find out that 90% of "their goods" are what you consider yours and other third party goods... Even BMW's are largely made there from what I've read.

Re: China Built a Vast New Infrastructure to Imprison Uighurs

#180

Post by derwiki » Fri, Aug 28, 2020, 1:14 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #112

unionpivo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a billion people there, and most of them have nothing to do with the government. Because that billion people there is the only one who can change the government.

Are you quite aware of how much blood is spilled when China goes through political turmoil? Aside from the world wars, a huge chunk of the top 10 bloodiest conflicts in history are Chinese internal conflicts. You're asking people who understand very well that standing up for a new government is going to be extremely costly. In the meantime, you want to deprive them of work. Ever wonder how those two things are connec…

Do you have a source for the ten bloodiest conflicts? Not saying you’re wrong just curious. Tiananmen Square and maybe some cultural revolution moments come to mind. But I also haven’t studied much Chinese history, which is why I’m curious.