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Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

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Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#171

Post by save_ferris »

HeavenFox wrote: post #19
jedberg wrote: post #3

It's fascinating to see the replies to the tweets. It appears most people don't care. They just want their game to work. A lesson in how your customers don't care about how your product is made.

A cursory scan of the Twitter thread suggests most people who have expressed an opinion are on team Apple, blaming Epic for violating Apple's term of service.

This is exactly what we get so mad at journalists about: we look at Twitter and just assume it accurately reflects reality, when there’s no evidence whatsoever that this is the case.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#172

Post by fatbird »

pmontra wrote: post #108
pneill wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Exactly. Think of it this way. You manufacture product foo and it's sold to customers via some national store chain. If you anger the owners of the store chain, they can simply refuse to carry your product anymore. This happens all the time. The app store is no different. It's a national chain that Epic sells through and they've poked the bear one too many times. Lucky for Epic that it's privately held. Otherwis…

Then customers that want that product go to another store chain. This makes stores think twice before banning some products or brands. There is only one store in iOS country.

But there are several stores in mobile country, and more again in platform country. Drawing the boundary of the market around iOS seems circular. "They're a monopoly because they have 100% of the market share on the market that's specific to them."

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#173

Post by dylan-m »

Razengan wrote: post #63
throwaw4y-plate wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can you be banned from doing business with millions of other people for offending the gatekeeper?

Why should Epic get to enjoy a market that Apple built without giving Apple anything or following the rules of the platform? Should anybody be able to post anything they want on HN or YouTube or Facebook etc.? They can't. Does Epic allow anyone to sell content for Fortnite without giving Epic any money? They don't.

Apple have hundreds of millions of loyal users buying new iPhones every few years as a result of that market. I think from that alone they are plenty compensated, and it's a perfectly good reason for Apple to provide a decent SDK. Or should successful developers send them a cake, too?

Apple should ask for compensation proportionate to the value they are providing Epic. Which they do, in the form of paid Apple developer accounts, and a 30% cut on services Epic is using.

For instance, if you choose to make your app free, Apple won't get that 30% cut on sales. This doesn't mean they are magically entitled to money as compensation - the transaction simply didn't happen. If they don't like that arrangement, maybe they should charge more for developer accounts?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#174

Post by ascagnel_ »

foogazi wrote: post #74
renewiltord wrote: post #51

I wonder what the story is behind the scenes and why Epic felt the need to make this Hail Mary play.

Someone looked at how much money they are making on iOS and multiplied it by 0.3 Imagine getting X% of everything you sell going forward without adding any extra features - just by complaining

I saw somewhere that Epic earned $500MM from the iOS version of Fortnite alone in 2019 -- so Epic was looking at potentially $150MM USD/year.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#175

Post by hu3 »

username3 wrote: post #161
ddorian43 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me rephrase it: Epic loses 30%. In this case, like, $500M+.

Epic can sell iTunes gift cards and earn back some of that 30%.

This makes as much sense as saying "just work extra hours to earn back taxes".

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#176

Post by dragonwriter »

Bud wrote: post #15
Solstinox wrote: post #13

What the f*ck is going on at Apple?

It's more like, why did Epic decide to file a spurious legal action when their situation with Apple is exactly the same as their situation with Microsoft (for XBox) and with Sony (for PlayStation) and with Google (for Android). The only difference is that Sony just invested $250M in Epic. I'm sure that minor fact has no relevance here, though. (sarcasm most certainly intended)

> It's more like, why did Epic decide to file a spurious legal action when their situation with Apple is exactly the same as their situation with Microsoft (for XBox) and with Sony (for PlayStation) and with Google (for Android).

It's not spurious and their situation on Android, at least, is not exactly the same, because they can (and have previously) distribute to Android via their own website or third-party stores (and have announced intent to bring their own store to Android.)

Of course, they are suing Google on similar grounds.

As why only Apple, it's not only Apple, and this kind of litigation is expensive and it doesn't really scale in cost with the potential reward, so if you are going to devote resources to one first swing at it, it make sense to do it where the immediate rewards of winning are the greatest, which is iOS, first and foremost, and I expect for Epic right now, mobile more generally.

> The only difference is that Sony just invested $250M in Epic. I'm sure that minor fact has no relevance here, though.

Well, yeah, that's a pretty important difference, and quite possibly legally relevant, too. Aside from the political reasons not to sue a major investor, investment agreements might well have terms that change why relevant legal rights and duties of the parties.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#177

Post by krrrh »

ForHackernews wrote: post #160
giovannibajo1 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite is available on several different game consoles and platforms (most of which, by the way, have a 30% commission fee). It used to be the case that it wasn’t available on iOS, and it was a planetary success already. Customers that had a iOS device and absolutely wanted Fortnite had to resort to use another platform, eg. buy a PC or a PlayStation. Now we’re back on the situations where we were before: Fortnite…

Holy s * this is a surreal comment to read on Hacker News. Once upon a time we believed in general-purpose computing devices that allowed users -- their owners! -- to run whatever software they pleased. Now you speak of "platforms" that charge a tax in return for preventing users from installing software -- on their own devices they actually literally own, mind. Can you imagine if your car would only operate on roads…

I believe in general purpose computers, I see them every day and I know they exist.

I also believe in choice and experimentation when it comes to business models. If I want to buy some systems with trade offs and benefits that don’t always include being able to root and run Linux on them, who are you to prevent me?

Believing that all systems must be maximally flexible is a scarcity mindset that felt more reasonable when families had to save to be able to afford a desktop computer that would be in use for several years.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#178

Post by ascagnel_ »

username3 wrote: post #161
ddorian43 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me rephrase it: Epic loses 30%. In this case, like, $500M+.

Epic can sell iTunes gift cards and earn back some of that 30%.

Epic literally does sell gift cards: https://smile.amazon.com/Fortnite-V-Bucks-Gift-Card-40/dp/B0...

Fortnite is big enough that Epic fills as many sales channels as they can with ways to buy their in-game currency.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#179

Post by bananabreakfast »

hu3 wrote: post #139
nxc18 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah as an iPhone user I really hope Apple makes this a very, very, example-making costly mistake for Epic.

You really hope Apple keeps charging 30% app tax and forbidding us from installing apps from outside of App Store?

most iPhone users love the idea of a single app store with apps vetted by apple

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#180

Post by nxc18 »

hu3 wrote: post #139
nxc18 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah as an iPhone user I really hope Apple makes this a very, very, example-making costly mistake for Epic.

You really hope Apple keeps charging 30% app tax and forbidding us from installing apps from outside of App Store?

Yes.

In particular, I don't ever want to be in the position that PC users are stuck in, where they can be forced to install certain stores just to get access to the games they want to play.

And I certainly don't want to be stuck in the position that Android users are in, where they have to worry about what store they're using, where the software comes from, and whether the app they're about to install is legitimate and free of malware.

There are freedoms to and freedoms from, and they're both important. As an iPhone user, I knowingly and willingly chose freedom from.

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