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Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

nature.com

171–180 of 358 posts

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#171
post #18

Some detractors often say transgender people have mental health issues. But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. A reality is that: A) Gender dysphoria is an imbalance of neural state. Therefore that would by definition be a mental health issue but not like the detractors say. B) Acknowledging and accommodating gender dysphoria discomfort costs cisgender people nothi…

> But they mean it in the sense that they should be in an asylum or should not be catered to. I have often heard it in a sense of "should not be catered to but rather given medical help". A fellow student once told me that he considers the current way of treating gender dysphoria irresponsible and that, if we'd treat schizophrenia the way we treat gender dysphoria, we'd all have to aknowledge the voices they hear and…

> should not be catered to but rather given medical help

Would they say the same for gay people? It wasn't that long ago that being gay was considered a mental disorder in need of fixing.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#172
It's well documented that autistic individuals are having difficulties resolving or tolerating emotionally conflicting situations.

If a male non-autist has girlish interests, he might be proud of his uniqueness and thereby accept it as part of himself.

For a male autist, the socially conflicting girlish interests will be much more painful, thereby driving a higher percentage of autists to resolve the conflict by adjusting their gender.

That would also explain the data, but with causality reversed.

And from personal experience: I received a lot of criticism as a kid because I was a guy but I liked purple shorts and playing dress-up with my sisters. It's just that since I never identified with the stereotypical guys from movies, I wasn't bothered that other people considered me unequal to them.

But I've seen how much effort my math genius classmate put into proving his manliness, so I assume the gossip about us having girlish interests must have bothered him a lot more than me.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#173
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People making claims like that generally no nothing of the procedure by which mental health issues are diagnosed - which is to say, mental health treatment is about addressing issues which are negatively affecting someone's quality of life, until they are not. This is the same reason you can't just go through the DSM V and ascribe mental health conditions to people on TV or in the media or whatnot - it doesn't work t…

Don’t they have much higher suicide rates? How happy can that be?

As a trans person that has started hormone therapy "late" ( I'm in my 40s), I can tell you I _feel_ much better since...

I know it's just one data point...

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trans people in general were largely ignored by research until the 2010s, so there's very little we do know at this point. But as for unresearched hunches... There's lots of jokes in the trans community about how your stereotypical trans girl is on the autism spectrum, with rainbow-colored hair, and into kink, anime, and programming. I think there's more of a willingness to challenge societal expectations of us in th…

Interesting. What you describe about not fitting in etc. is very similar to my experience. Only that I’m a straight male. Could it be that transitioning is not so much about gender but about fitting in? If I could put a name to my angst and the barriers with others, it might be “transgender”. Which could give me a community of similar folks, a measure of acceptance, a handle, on why I’m not like the others. The resea…

I can't speak for anyone else, but I transitioned before I had met another tg person. When I transitioned I was already apart of a social group. I didn't need to fit in or find my place. When I was a kid I got along with both boys and girls making friends with both.

People do seek out others like themselves, but transgender communities are rare, because transgender people are rare. There are not many of them. When there are hundreds of people gossiping about transgendered people for every transgendered person it's easy for faulty information to be spread. There is a lot of misunderstandings about transgender people.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of trans/nonbinary people would agree with you. :D

I think a lot of people of any identity would agree with me... but are we outnumbered by those who are rigorously inspecting what toys a four-year-old is playing with, as a lens towards gauging their future conformity to one traditional gender role or the other?

The deconstruction of gender norms is relatively common among gender-progressive people.

You seem to be confusing inspecting toys for conformity and inspecting systems that encourage (or require) conformity. And it's much easier to attack or be concerned about straw-positions than actual ones.

It's not problematic for someone to play with toys, or do things, stereotypical to their gender. It's a problem when they are encouraged (tacitly or not) or forced to stick within a predefined scope.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#176
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn’t be allowed to use transitioned unless there is literal gene replacement happening.

In HN's context, this and your other posts in the thread constitute flamebait—that is, inflammatory and unsubstantive. You're violating these two guidelines: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " " Eschew flamebait. " If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and sticking to the rules, we'd be grateful.

It’s a clear disagreement and not “bait”. But yes, I get it.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#177
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not op, but i think that western gender roles are a scam. i'm not suggesting that there aren't differences between biological sexes, but gender != sex and the false idea that there are only two ways to express your gender is quite limiting.

And eastern gender roles aren't? Is there something I don't know?

'Western' in this context presumably means the binary model of man/woman dominant in the West (e.g., Europe, North America) and gradually exported to be the default worldwide (via colonisation and later cultural exports).

There have been, and are, exceptions to this model in what might broadly be called 'the East'. Think of the Hijra on the Indian subcontinent, or the Kathoey (Ladyboys) in Thailand.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#178
post #8

Are there leading candidate hypotheses for the cause of autism? Do we know things like heritability, correlation with environmental pollutants, anything?

In psychology how we define a thing is constructed from a series of observable characteristics.

The problem is, there are multiple situations that can cause the same series of characteristics. "Are there leading candidate hypotheses for the cause of autism?" is like asking, "Are there leading candidate hypotheses for the cause of a headache?" There is no single cause.

What we do know is most people with autism do not process facial expressions as much as the average person. This causes a lack of paying attention to body language, which then ripples into most of the characteristics that define autism. Studies have shown eye training on infants can completely remove symptoms of autism.

But a root cause is more complex when there are multiple. Some people get overloaded when they look at people's faces. Some just didn't pick up the proper habits of looking at others when interacting with them. The root cause can vary from person to person.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#179
post #7

Hanging out in trans circles (as a non-binary person myself), this seems commonly known within the community. Interesting to see research done here, but I'd be careful about over generalizing (e.g. "All trans people are neurodiverse"). Edit: Also, happy to answer questions about being non-binary (specifically, gender fluid) if folks have good faith questions.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

You might be interested in his interview with Dr. Debra Soh. There is a lot of misunderstanding among parents regarding what counseling/therapy psychologists can provide and that interview clarifies some recent changes.

Re: Elevated rates of autism in transgender and gender-diverse individuals

#180
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. If you have heard of it, or read it, I'd love to hear what you think of her position. I appreciate the offer to be part of a dialogue. I think it's import…

> Have you heard of Abigail Shrier's book "The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters"? She was on Joe Rogan's podcast recently though I have yet to listen to it. A quick search turned up, not surprisingly, some negative critiques and others that are more positive. So, you're asking an honest question, but it's pretty insensitive and I hope you're curious because this is the truth. Framing that as a curious questio…

It never says that the crazy describes all trans people. It doesn't call all trans fakes. You seem to even admit you didn't make it past the title with your uncharitable read, so how do you expect to respond to something it actually claims?

It points out that there are some social contagion factors to some expressions in our youth. Which is completely reasonable given how much clout gives you in modern social media, for example. And that an impressionable girl with low self-esteem can suddenly "become trans" and win social favor, which I don't see how you could find unreasonable if you've ever been a teen.

Maybe approach it a little more open-mindedly. You basically dismiss everyone in the book as just being unable to "cope with loss" which isn't much different than dismissing any group (like trans people) with some convenient reason that leaves your world-view untouched.

Also not sure how your anecdote disproves the craze, especially since the craze is talking about the last 5 years. Your experience in the 90s has little bearing on 2020 where you get instant social proof on social media in some circles by putting a rainbow flag in your username. Times are different. You don't think social contagion could explain any part of the 800% increase in trans identity among the youth? I don't see how you couldn't believe that on any 800% increase in what the youth are doing.

It's like amphetamine abuse among kids. I have extreme ADHD and to some degree depend on the drug to get what I want in life. Just because you could write a book about kids claiming to have ADHD just to get prescribed a great recreational drug (and I bet you could even call it a craze, as it seemed in uni) doesn't mean I can't have ADHD or that everyone is an abuser. I would consider myself weirdly defensive to the point of dismissing inconvenient truths if I were to believe that, yet that's what I see you doing.

That you give yourself so much authority on trans matters, especially in response to such a reasonable point, is kind of an example of what I see as modern trans clout these days. Why wouldn't a teen want that? As the book points out, it's incredibly easy to "be trans" when the rest of your friend group in high school is suddenly on the non-binary spectrum unlike when you were a kid.

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