The absolute state of America.
Would you please stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to HN? We're trying for a bit better than that here.
Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
171–180 of 340 posts
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
FTA: Ouchi said the boy, now 17, was released in April and will require surgery to treat the physical issues he developed as a result of the estrogen treatment. ... The boy’s father said the hormone therapy has had a long-term effect on his son, who now scares easily and has become antisocial. “He’s like a different person. He just wants to be in his room, and he don’t come out for nothing, all day in his room,” the…
> The boy’s father said the hormone therapy has had a long-term effect on his son, who now scares easily and has become antisocial. “He’s like a different person. He just wants to be in his room, and he don’t come out for nothing, all day in his room,” the father said. “He was never like that.” How could one possibly discern this from the effects of going through juvie in general. I'd certainly feel betrayed by socie…
An adolescent boy grows breasts and then wants to stay in his room all day. It could well be all about body shame, trying to protect himself from social trauma. The rate of suicide among people who transition on purpose is so extremely high. What must it be among people who are transitioned by force.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#173This doctor must lose their medical license for life. At best they are wildly incompetent, at worst they are maliciously inflicting harm upon a teen for personal or political reasons. Giving estrogen to men usually causes irreversible sterility for life . The doctor would have known this. The pharmacist would have known this. That they chose to proceed with the risk of sterilizing a boy without notifying his parents…
> men pursuing a change in gender are expected to sign their name or initial in the box at least ten times in a row in order to receive their prescription This is not true, at least not anywhere I've gotten Estradiol. Also, while I'm sure you intended to be respectful with your comment, most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are c…
>>most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are changing their gender.
I am assuming you have some sort of source showing that this person has the desire to transition? If not I am unclear why this fact matters in the context of this story of what appears to be a doctor forcing medication on a patient against both their and their guardians desire or consent
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#174This doctor must lose their medical license for life. At best they are wildly incompetent, at worst they are maliciously inflicting harm upon a teen for personal or political reasons. Giving estrogen to men usually causes irreversible sterility for life . The doctor would have known this. The pharmacist would have known this. That they chose to proceed with the risk of sterilizing a boy without notifying his parents…
Source on the sterility?
Afaik all that happens is that estrogen inhibits the pituitary, which will temporarily shut down testosterone and sperm production. But with patience or sufficient antiestrogens, those can be restarted. (Testicular atrophy is another factor, but that takes much longer to occur is also reversible)
Which isn't to say that estrogen is harmless. Without proper therapy, the hormonal shutdown can take many months to undo itself, and gynecomastia can usually only be resolved by surgery.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#175This doctor must lose their medical license for life. At best they are wildly incompetent, at worst they are maliciously inflicting harm upon a teen for personal or political reasons. Giving estrogen to men usually causes irreversible sterility for life . The doctor would have known this. The pharmacist would have known this. That they chose to proceed with the risk of sterilizing a boy without notifying his parents…
> men pursuing a change in gender are expected to sign their name or initial in the box at least ten times in a row in order to receive their prescription This is not true, at least not anywhere I've gotten Estradiol. Also, while I'm sure you intended to be respectful with your comment, most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are c…
Yeah I've taken a lot of estrogen at this point and I was never required to sign anything...
Agree that people who call themselves "men" typically don't sign up for titty skittles.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#176Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#177In the US, the criminal justice system is not concerned primarily with reforming criminals or deterring future crimes. It’s concerned mostly with making the lives of people convicted or accused of crimes (many of whom are innocent or otherwise had extenuating circumstances) absolutely miserable, retribution taken to the extreme (tangentially, I’m not against retribution in principle, but don’t think it should always…
Retribution should not be a part of any justice system. As retribution is not justice.
Restitution, Rehabilitation and isolation should be the 3 goals of a true justice system.
Victims should have a path to restitution when possible (some crimes this is not)
Criminals should have a path to rehabilitation when possible (some crimes this is not)
For when the other 2 fail, Isolation is the final step, isolation means we isolate people that have been proven to be a danger to others and do not have the ability to be rehabilitated.
Retribution is just unethical, it makes the population of a system of retribution to be no better than the criminals they are abusing.
Support for retribution is a visceral reaction but holds no value or place if the goal is justice.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#178Something doesn't add up with this story and I suspect it's going to come out in the lawsuit.
If the doctor REALLY did want to lower testosterone levels in the 16 year old, there's a slew of medications that would have been more effective (Spiro, Lupron, Bica, etc). That amount of Estradiol isn't going to do much to lower T levels.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
> men pursuing a change in gender are expected to sign their name or initial in the box at least ten times in a row in order to receive their prescription This is not true, at least not anywhere I've gotten Estradiol. Also, while I'm sure you intended to be respectful with your comment, most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are c…
>>most people getting this treatment see themselves as women who are changing their bodies to match their gender, not as men who are changing their gender. I am assuming you have some sort of source showing that this person has the desire to transition? If not I am unclear why this fact matters in the context of this story of what appears to be a doctor forcing medication on a patient against both their and their gua…
Parent is responding to the sentence they quoted at the top of their comment.
Re: Boy, 16, was given estrogen at L.A. juvenile hall, suit says
#180As someone who recently had surgery for gynecomastia that I've had since puberty, I feel sorry for the kid and hope the breast tissue will naturally resolve.
The event is confusing for several reasons - not only are testosterone levels not linked to ODD, even if they were, there are drugs that can gently reduce testosterone production. Estrogen isn't one of them.