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Not being an asshole will make you more money

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Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#171

Post by Baeocystin »

JackFr wrote: post #151
xwdv wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would he make it so personal? What did you guys do to him?

Is it possible that it wasn't personal? That the contract was cancelled because the product wasn't worth it? That the note wasn't extended because he thought the company was a money sink which would not be profitable? That he thought trying to liquidate the good bits was a better way to get his money, rather than a payment plan from a value destroying enterprise? That he sued personally because he felt they might be…

>Is it possible that it wasn't personal?

You would be stunned at how often the reasons for events like this are driven by simple narcissism and spite. That's not cynicism speaking, it's reality, and something well worth keeping in mind in any business endeavor.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#172

Post by lowdose »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #168
meritt wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by backing out all of our changes and only putting in his changes That so feels like a mistake because that's the sort of tactic that would completely and utterly remove their capability of ever working as a corporate lawyer ever again for any company. If that genuinely happened, that lawyer needs to be disbarred, but that's a pretty damn egregious accusation.

> That so feels like a mistake... Easy to test. 1. Send back the document he sent with a copy of your most recent edits and ask him to confirm if his document is correct. 2. But, make note of at ONE error, and see if he fixes all of them. 3. If he only fixes only the one, then he's either really lazy or trying to keep up the deceit. 4. Repeat steps 1 to 3, be sure to CC everyone involved. If he's lazy he will be asha…

You must have had your share of weasels during contract negotiations.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#173

Post by nitwit005 »

Unfortunately, you'll find people often respect assholes. Look no further than how people are outright worshipful of successful criminals.

Some people also seem to learn how to capitalize on their poor reputations. If you're well known in an industry, even for something bad, you can often get people to talk to you.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#174

Post by [deleted] »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #26
seanhunter wrote: post #5

I have an example. In a previous role was in a position where we were negotiating a large-ish (>1M USD) multi-year contract when our client asked us to also do a proof of concept about some topic. It was just 1 week or 2 weeks so I said it would be free but because of various regulatory stuff we needed a contract in place. I was dealing with the same purchasing lawyer on both contracts. The process was super-standard…

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

[deleted]

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#175

Post by marcosdumay »

bcrosby95 wrote: post #55
gameswithgo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run. I worked for a company where one of the owners seemed to have a world view that everyone is trying to screw you over, so you better screw them over first. After I left I had a friend ask about the company, because they were about to a deal with them. I gave my honest opinion and suggested they be sure to get any money up front and be very careful to…

This kinda seems like a just world fallacy. It might get around, it might not - I'm not sure its really known either way. But we like to hope people that regularly behave like assholes eventually get punished for it.

It does surely go around often. It also looks like it doesn't often (but this one is a negative, so one can not be sure).

No alternative is rare, so the ratio is the interesting measure. (And no, I don't know this one.)

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#176

Post by JackRabbitSlim »

papito wrote: post #19

The most common difference between us peasants and the people of means is that those other people ASK more often. Ask for more money, ask for a bonus, ask for lower rent. And then it adds up. The one thing that holds most of us back is shame. But shame is a good thing in general. It's the glue that keeps societies together, preventing them from spiraling down to the lowest common denominator. Questionable if this sti…

No. The difference is those with means can accept the risk of asking for more. It's not simply that they ask, its that they survive when/if it fails.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#177

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

gameswithgo wrote: post #37
Ididntdothis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common negotiation strategy to be a complete ass and wearing people down. A lot of people will give in just to keep the peace. It also works to ask for more concessions right before closing the deal. You just have to be shameless. I think that’s why sociopaths tend to do well in business.

Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run. I worked for a company where one of the owners seemed to have a world view that everyone is trying to screw you over, so you better screw them over first. After I left I had a friend ask about the company, because they were about to a deal with them. I gave my honest opinion and suggested they be sure to get any money up front and be very careful to…

> Once word gets around though, it starts to harm you in the long run.

How sure of that are you? One of the big proponents of this strategy is currently President of the United States.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#178

Post by chrisbennet »

I had a clients contract that had this in it:

"Recover any and all actual, incidental and consequential damages to XYZ, including but not limited to actual or estimated loss of profits and sales and costs to cover, attorney’s fees and costs.."

I wrote back: "Nice try but yeah, no. ;-) "

(My lawyer fixed all these overreaches and they were a great client.)

As an aside my lawyer told me that when you a drafting a contract with someone you want to work with, its best to be fair. If you don't, you're starting the relationship where the counter-party doesn't trust you. After all, you tried to screw them the very first chance you had.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#179

Post by izacus »

airstrike wrote: post #116
izacus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I've had this happen when drawing up contracts with American lawyers way too many times for it to be mistakes. We've had lawyers try to sneak in one sided clauses after we agreed differently with business owners pretty much constantly. It always significantly deteriorated relations with that company. But I guess Americans think that's fine because "it's just business".

> But I guess Americans think that's fine because "it's just business". That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation.

I wouldn't word it like this if it wouldn't be a very noticable pattern of behaviour comming pretty much only from US customers. Negotiations with customers from other cultures have been significantly more honest - it doesn't mean they weren't seeking an advantage, but this agreesive backstabing from legal departments right after signing up the customer was something that was very very US American.

After seeing it first-hand, I'm noticing this attitude even in fields like global politics, where burning goodwill to gain very minor advantages seems to be the policy these days.

Re: Not being an asshole will make you more money

#180

Post by izacus »

mcv wrote: post #169
inetknght wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a really prejudiced and unwarranted view of Americans. If anything it says more about your biases and prejudices than it does about one nation. I am an American citizen so you can take it from an American citizen instead. Companies have zero scruples whatsoever about screwing over others in business.

But other companies still do business with them, right? So they're getting away with it.

"It doesn't matter how we behave as long as they're still forced to do business with us." attitude is exactly what I was talking about :)
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