Earlier quoted context omitted.
yeah, they do :( https://github.com/github/markup/issues/1258
... that's not what's happening in your link?
An Update to Our Community and an Apology
171–180 of 424 posts
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#172Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#173This is pretty bad. It would have been way better to post nothing than to post this. If you want to have a community, then treat your community like intelligent humans. And to be clear, you absolutely _depend_ on the good will of your community. This is non-optional. Admit your mistake and fix it. And if you think that your mistake was the timing, then talk to someone who understands the situation.
This is what makes me pessimistic about the world will live in. It doesn't matter. SE will probably be just fine. Not enough people will leave for it to matter.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#174Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
If they honestly don’t know the persons gender then it isn’t clear to me why they would choose a pronoun to begin with. If I don’t know someone’s name I don’t just start calling them Bill, I ask them their name and when they say “Hi I’m William but I prefer Bill” and move on with my life knowing to refer to this person as Bill, not William.
If it was a genuine accident I personally see no problem with it and from my personal anecdotal experience the only place I’ve seen anyone get upset over an accidental misgendering or accidental dead naming was on outrage pieces done by outragePorn news sites just looking for ways to clickbait vulnerable anger-prone clickers.
If someone intentionally misgenders another I personally just assume the misgenderer is an asshole, just as I would if someone intentionally and repeatedly calls someone by the wrong name.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#175I don’t know about who, what, where, when or why... but the “don't ship on Friday” comment in an apology statement regarding the handling of firing someone is completely brain dead / tone deaf. In the very few official statements I’ve worked on, they are reviewed by so many people (so many that even I had to vet it). Unbelievable that “don’t ship on Friday” got through.
Just to be clear, did they fire anyone? Kicking a mod out isn't the same as firing. That's not to say it's completely harmless, just different. I'm just wondering for me own knowledge.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#176Does anyone really think that the use of gender neutral language (using they rather than he or she) is mis-gendering in the absence of knowing someone’s preferred pronoun set?
And even when someone has known preferred pronouns, is using gender neutral language problematic anyway?
I can understand people being upset by others using gendered pronouns that are not aligned with their own gender identity, but are there any people who've declared a preference for "she" or "he" or anything else, who'd be upset of offended by the use of "they"?
(I quite often stop and rewrite a sentence when posting places where, I don't know the readers well enough to know their prefered pronouns, and my usual approach is to reword using "they"...)
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#177Since this is quasi-political, using a throwaway
But I noticed StackOverflow in 2016 made a really good choice: Having their code snippets in MIT: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/271080/the-mit-lice...
But based on this drama: I'd consider SO a platform to stay away from.
Let me be clear: Acting like a professional and an adult is an essential when communicating with me. Regardless of what the subject is or how dear it is to you. If someone had an opinion on mere speech - they could take a walk and understand other people have feelings and lives to live, not just them.
I wish we began to make a standard for people to keep their composure and communicate better. I see two sides: People who are willing to spoil relationships and burn bridges over political nuance of the week, and a voiceless majority who have the same exact problems, but are willing to take a breath and work it out.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#178-542 before it was locked. That's incredible. People are really really afraid to talk about this particular topic (which they don't mention in the statement), because this type of call-out to be banned happens a lot. The book "The Coddling of the American Mind" is an amazing book that documents how this is happening in academia, and it's happening on the software world too. Most people in our industry, in the US, EU…
> the majority of people just want to live and be kind to each other
Once you realize that people's politics reflect their values and the problems they see in their world (and which side they've bought into), it becomes a lot harder to stigmatize the other side...or even take a side.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
So, the solution you proposed is exactly what the moderators asked to do. Seems fair enough to me. They were told that not playing the pronoun game is the same as harassing whomever they are speaking to. The whole situation is ridiculous to me. How have we come to a point where not only do people think I care in the slightest who or what they have sex with (or don't, whatever), but they demand I call them by some wor…
So, you consider it your choice to decide if people should be described using Male or female pronouns, and believe it would be fascist for someone to say "actually, I'm Male. Please refer to me as he, not she?". It just feels impolite to me to not refer to people by their gender. Is it that upsetting to give people their name and gender? What right of yours does this infringe?
No, I'm saying I get to decide what I say, not you. If the gender neutral 'they' ,' you' etc aren't enough for you then we don't need to speak with each other.
What's impolite is demanding I conform to your view and forcing me to learn some words you made up and use them every time we speak.
And again, it's a self-applied label.
Don't force me to use your made up words, I won't tell you what to do with your life.
ps- I grew up in the 80s when gay and trans people were very much oppressed, unlike now. I stood up for their rights, got in actual fights for them on several occasions. And now im called CIS scum for being a straight male.
I have family members I've had to stand with against other family members because they were gay. I love them dearly and even to them I say 'I respect your liberties, please respect mine'.
Re: An Update to Our Community and an Apology
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't know someone's gender or preferred pronouns, it's reasonable to use "they/them". If someone has explicitly asked you to use "she/her", and you exclusively use "they/them", you are still not using that person's preferred pronouns .
I ask this as an honest question, and not as a form of bait. But the virtue of using “they/their” is that you’re being respectful of the fact that you’re not assuming anything. My problem with this suddenly becoming offensive is that I don’t see how I’m supposed to remember the additional meta of an individual’s pronouns - I already have enough trouble remembering names! Is it not creating too much of a meta minefiel…
Sometimes people exclusively use "they/their" to refer to trans people who prefer "he" or "she" as a way to try to publicly demean the person's transness. This isn't a rare/theoretical occurrence.
Most people understand that using "they/their" is a good default when you're talking about a specific person who you happen to not know the gender of. People get that using "they" isn't necessarily an attack, but if you for example do it in response to a message where their gender is made apparent, or if you only do it when talking about trans people, then it quickly starts looking rude.