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In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

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Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#171

Post by 40acres »

I live in Portland, OR and have been to Seattle many times. This article is disingenuous -- homelessness and hard drug use are blights on these two rapidly growing cities.

I'm deeply critical of our criminal justice system and feel that we need a complete revamping of who and why we criminalize. Instead of stop and frisk like tacits that disproportionately affect minorities we need to refocus our police and penitentiary efforts on bringing these folks into a facility specifically designed to wean them off drugs and rehabilitate.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#172

Post by timdev2 »

vkou wrote: post #112
dymk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, and a really weird dichotomy to boot. I said that these violent addicts are refusing offered social services , yet we let them walk around and continue to harm the public.

> Well that's a gross misrepresentation of what I said, No, it's not. What you said, in response to the article was: > I am just astounded that this is being spun in such a positive light. The implication here is that redirecting non-violent addicts off the addiction --> prison pipeline was a policy mistake. I ask why you think that non-violent addicts should be put into prison. You tell me I'm grossly misrepresentin…

You replied to a post complaining that the policy also seemed to be giving violent individuals a pass, and accused them of "think[ing] that non-violent addicts should be put into prison". Which was neither said nor (as you claim) implied. The comment was explicitly bemoaning a perceived plague of "repeat violent drug addicts"

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#173

Post by xenocyon »

just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

At least part of the cause of the visible squalor we see in Seattle is that the tough-on-crime crowd has consistently opposed safe injection, harm reduction, trash pickup, housing-first, and other evidence-based policies in favor of expensive, inhumane, and pointless measures like sweeps and incarceration. Any measure the city government takes that is not overtly cruel gets slammed as coddling the homeless or "attracting" homeless to the city, despite the fact that the data show this trope to be a fiction.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#174

Post by rdtwo »

coryrc wrote: post #105
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... or fleeing to suburbs...

That's a big problem for those of us still here that would prefer enforcement; our fellow-minded voters have (probably rightly) chosen defect and left the city, rather than stay to vote for change. Suburb living also has twice the greenhouse gas impact as well.

I think the latest city council election is going to show that Seattle sadly wants more of the same problems and people like us are unwelcome

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#175

Post by downandout »

allana wrote: post #41
throwaway827364 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? Junkies and other folks who throw needles on the street when there’s a trash can like 5 feet away will actually make appointments to stop at these consumption sites? Who pays for this? The city of Seattle makes a mess because of their extremist policies of not enforcing laws so let’s raise taxes to make up for it?

Please cite how Seattle's policy of not locking people up to rot in prison is extremist. You had a viable argument right up until that point! Edit: Thanks for the bot downvotes! Going from +2 to -1 in the span of a minute on two separate comments is a bit of a red flag :P

I downvoted you, and I’m pretty sure I’m not a bot. I did so because failing to lock up people that commit serious crimes is prima facie extremist - no citation is necessary.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#176

Post by redisman »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #63
diydsp wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.

Hiding the world from our children instead of letting them see how awful the adults have made it is dishonest, at best. I prefer to teach kids how to find compassion for people in such situations.

Preach. I, also, send my kids to go camping in Pioneer Square/under I-5 to teach them about the _real world_.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#177

Post by sukilot »

nostromo wrote: post #15

... this is probably news to people actually living in Seattle. (Edit: the title was originally, "Seattle Has Figured Out How to End the War on Drugs") A place where meth heads attack people with pitchforks in the street a few days after being released from prison on a suspended sentence. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/man-accused-... Not to mention our random piles of used syringes, which are often…

If crime is determined by victimhood:

> public intoxication not an "actual crime"

> public camping seeking shelter is not an "actual crime"

> shop lifting is an "actual crime"

> harassment is an "actual crime"

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#178

Post by refurb »

xenocyon wrote: post #173
just_lurkin wrote: post #17

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

At least part of the cause of the visible squalor we see in Seattle is that the tough-on-crime crowd has consistently opposed safe injection, harm reduction, trash pickup, housing-first, and other evidence-based policies in favor of expensive, inhumane, and pointless measures like sweeps and incarceration. Any measure the city government takes that is not overtly cruel gets slammed as coddling the homeless or "attrac…

Tough on crimes folks oppose trash pick-up?

Really?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#179

Post by sukilot »

diydsp wrote: post #52
phil248 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does confiscating an addict's heroin accomplish? As far as I can tell, all you've done is make a desperate addict far more desperate than they were a moment ago. The situation is only made worse.

One could say it incentivizes them to keep it at home, out of view of minors.

For that to work, they'd need a home.

How is "view of minors" relevant?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#180

Post by jbattle »

dcolkitt wrote: post #75

I fully support legalizing all drugs, but don't understand why the latest wave of criminal justice reform tolerates property crimes. Crimes like smash and grabs, purse snatching, bike thefts, vandalism, littering, and shoplifting clearly have defined victims and lower the quality of life for everyone. It's perfectly possible to be a heroin addict and an upstanding citizen at the same time. The same cannot be said of…

The alternative is often vigilante justice, which is worse for everyone. Apparently the 'coffee throwing guy' was beaten by the child's father after he threw coffee - certainly an understandable reaction from a father who saw his child assaulted. But that's going to leave a mark on everyone - Calderon included
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