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I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

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Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#171

Post by sharkweek »

WalterBright wrote: post #162
CPLX wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not a fucking thing that’s even slightly improper about taking your allotted PTO days.

It is improper to take sick leave if you're not sick. It wouldn't be improper if it is labeled PTO. I.e. it depends on how the policy is written.

Define sick.

Contagious cold? A rough day with anxiety/depression? Struggling with the side effects of a new medicine? Hung over from a night of partying?

If the company’s policy is 10 days, then there is zero reason to negatively judge an employee for using those days.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#172

Post by Fomite »

lkey wrote: post #137
WalterBright wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once talked to a manager about how he handed out raises. He mentioned one engineer who was sick exactly 10 days out of each year. Coincidentally, the company offered 10 days of paid sick leave a year. He laughed, and said she wasn't fooling anyone, and didn't give her a raise.

So he decided he'd figured out her scam without ever bringing it up in yearly or monthly review. He also never asked for proof of the 10 days of sick leave after the first year, which is reasonable to do if he had a suspicion she was flouting a rule. If he wanted to factor sick days into his pay decision, he had a responsibility to make sure he was correct using the proper internal channels. An alternate and equally…

This was my immediate thought: "I bet she's sick for more than 10 days a year".

But who knows. Maybe one of his employees trying to work through being sick will come in and give him norovirus. A man can hope.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#173

Post by chrsstrm »

zdragnar wrote: post #166
chrsstrm wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "improper" mean and who gets to decide what actions are improper? Paid days are paid days and just because they have a certain name doesn't change a thing. Has anyone ever been accused of faking a vacation? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous. But since sick days are called sick days all of a sudden you need to prove you're bedridden or else face consequences? That's absurd. Treat your employees…

Sick days and vacation days typically have different notification requirements- in most places that had them I've worked at, it was 2 weeks for vacation and asap for sick leave. Vacation time could be denied if, say, the job involved time sensitive equipment or safety related tasks (I.e. nursing) and others had already requested the time off. Abusing sick leave- depending on the job- has very real consequences for yo…

So do those consequences you mention suddenly disappear if you're _actually_ sick? The fixation on "abuse" and that it can be easily determined doesn't make sense.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#174

Post by giaour »

WalterBright wrote: post #162
CPLX wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s not a fucking thing that’s even slightly improper about taking your allotted PTO days.

It is improper to take sick leave if you're not sick. It wouldn't be improper if it is labeled PTO. I.e. it depends on how the policy is written.

You're supposed to use sick days to take care of a sick dependent, too. Most single parents I've worked with always take all their allocated sick days because they use them when they're sick or when they have to stay home with a sick kid.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#175

Post by lkey »

WalterBright wrote: post #149
lkey wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he decided he'd figured out her scam without ever bringing it up in yearly or monthly review. He also never asked for proof of the 10 days of sick leave after the first year, which is reasonable to do if he had a suspicion she was flouting a rule. If he wanted to factor sick days into his pay decision, he had a responsibility to make sure he was correct using the proper internal channels. An alternate and equally…

Fair enough, I agree he was being passive aggressive, but on the other hand, if someone is doing something that has the appearance of impropriety, it's a good idea to proactively bring it up with the boss to head off the suspicions.

Have you ever been managed by a passive-aggressive person? I haven't personally, but I know many people who have been, and the stain they leave on a team lasts years.

Your implication here is that it the the subordinate's job to read the mind of management. She must know what is 'proper' in her manager's mind outside of the explicit rules of the job. Management, however, is allowed to read her state of mind incorrectly and adjust her pay accordingly.

Obviously power imbalances like this exist everywhere, and it's wise to be proactive and careful, but that doesn't mean we should hold up examples like these as just or reasonable outcomes.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#176

Post by WalterBright »

sharkweek wrote: post #171
WalterBright wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is improper to take sick leave if you're not sick. It wouldn't be improper if it is labeled PTO. I.e. it depends on how the policy is written.

Define sick. Contagious cold? A rough day with anxiety/depression? Struggling with the side effects of a new medicine? Hung over from a night of partying? If the company’s policy is 10 days, then there is zero reason to negatively judge an employee for using those days.

My father once told me that honor is what separates men from animals, and honor is what you do when nobody is looking. We all get to choose who we are.

I was also fortunate to attend a university with an honor system, to the extent that exams weren't even allowed to be proctored. Whether you cheated or not was up to you, nobody would know.

I appreciated that system, and have tried to live it long after graduation. I could go on, but it has proved to be more than worthwhile.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#177

Post by anderspitman »

seraphsf wrote: post #22
conorh wrote: post #10

I had read a few of these negative articles about Amazon fulfillment centers and then a guy we know working the counter at our local pizza place got a job at one of them. That made me change my mind and doubt the reporting after talking with him. The pay was much better better, the benefits if he transitioned to full time were much better, and he was really excited about a program Amazon has to cover tuition after (I…

Reminds me of the classic Nicholas Kristof article, “Two Cheers for Sweatshops”. ( http://archive.is/W6ABE ) The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job. If the employer of a “sweatshop job” is not coercing or lying to its employees, then I have a hard time faulting the employer…

> The gist of which is, a job can be ‘not good’ from the perspective of the privileged but still ‘much better than the alternatives’ from the perspective of the people who take that job.

If you want to go deeper on this subject I highly recommend reading Factfulness.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#178

Post by fastball »

anigbrowl wrote: post #121
toasterlovin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searching for “phrenology” doesn’t return a single result until the comments. And the article seems to be a fairly balanced review. It starts by crediting the author of the book they are reviewing for several things before making a reasoned argument against her conclusions. What am I missing?

I'm using the word pejoratively, but I was specifically referring to the handwavey discussion of skull measurement as a synecdoche for the whole article.

Neither do I see a discussion of skull measurement.

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#179

Post by rb808 »

dcre wrote: post #11

Lots of interesting and worthwhile detail, none of which undermines reporting about what goes on in warehouses in which the author does not work, nor does it undermine the argument that paying $30,000 a year for full time work in California is only possible because America maintains a permanent underclass willing to work for next to nothing.

In which other country can unskilled workers earn $30k?

OK maybe a handful. (AUD has gone down since 2013) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage#/media/File:Hourl...

Re: I work in an Amazon warehouse in West Sacramento

#180

Post by kranner »

WalterBright wrote: post #176
sharkweek wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define sick. Contagious cold? A rough day with anxiety/depression? Struggling with the side effects of a new medicine? Hung over from a night of partying? If the company’s policy is 10 days, then there is zero reason to negatively judge an employee for using those days.

My father once told me that honor is what separates men from animals, and honor is what you do when nobody is looking. We all get to choose who we are. I was also fortunate to attend a university with an honor system, to the extent that exams weren't even allowed to be proctored. Whether you cheated or not was up to you, nobody would know. I appreciated that system, and have tried to live it long after graduation. I…

The honor system should extend to trusting employee's assessment of them being sick enough not to be able to work.

No, we don't all get to choose who we are. People don't choose to have depression, or >

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