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Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

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Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#171

Post by flukus »

yepguy wrote: post #21

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children. Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an inc…

> Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children.

I think we should skip logic and go for the emotional "what happens when a pedophile get's this information" argument. There's certainly enough truth to it, a pedophile having that sort of surveillance data could do all sorts of psychological manipulation, even getting access to the schools database would do it.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#172

Post by 0815test »

Avamander wrote: post #153
0815test wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can teach your kid to resist psychological abuse. Physical abuse is more challenging - often the only real option is to push back in self-defense, which can be quite problematic.

Resisting mental violence doesn't work. It seeps trough defenses. Kind-of like "Don't think about a Pink Elephant".

> Resisting mental violence doesn't work. It seeps trough defenses.

What? It absolutely does, especially compared to the alternative of not doing it. Your kid must simply internalize the fact that they're trying to get a reaction out of him/her, and that's the only motive behind what they're saying. Oh, and that people who act like that are very unlikely to ever be friendly to you; and in particular, trying to cater to them or to appeal to their humaneness is the worst approach one could take. These things are not obvious to the average kid; they absolutely need to be taught.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#173

Post by prepend »

zepto wrote: post #130
TheOperator wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't nessecarily have an issue with surveillance systems as they act as force multipliers for all sorts of noble causes. Surveillance systems should strictly be used for physical safety, anti-vandalism, and loss prevention purposes. You're not preparing kids to succeed by micromanaging them from behind a series of monitors. At all. People who intend to use the system to punish the kids for swearing by no means sho…

What noble causes do they currently act as force multipliers for?

Overtime for local responder staff. Revenue for keyword based twitter searcherers.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#174

Post by prepend »

esaym wrote: post #51
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its popular to create false dichotomies. Like this one. How about: monitor them sometimes and train them into good behavior patterns, so as to create a population of civil citizens You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance. Like any civil society.

I can tell you right now (as someone that actually went to the mentioned Brazosport school) that if they had more stricter rules and monitoring "in my day", I probably wouldn't be here right now (as in being part of the HN community). I'd probably be in prison or working a minimum wage job. I was not interested in going to high school. Perhaps because there were no classes that interested me (another issue). I cut cl…

It’s funny, in 1994 the most popular Usenet channel for me was alt.destroy.the.earth (second was alt.food.tacobell). People just theorizing about blowing stuff up as thought experiments. I was a minor so what is the appropriate action from the school if they had some tool like this back then?

It’s hard to tell what’s dangerous speech vs kids exploring the world and stretching their brains. The gifted class loves the anarchist cookbook because it was weird stuff.

We need to figure out what sensitivity and specificity we want for these types of surveillance. I think there are some who think knocking on 1000 doors to prevent one shooting is acceptable.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#175

Post by handzbagz1 »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #37

It's not clear from the article how the system monitors encrypted social media traffic. Perhaps Twitter as it is public afterward, right? Or does it look for public posts to local groups in Facebook? Or everyone has location tagging on posts on other sites? How are these companies getting their information to analyze?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean but most of these systems install a HTTPS certificate on the device so they can analyse the data and re-encrypt it.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#176

Post by shapiro1 »

I bullied a kid in middle school to the point where he switched classes. Teachers didn’t panick and kick me out, rather they listened to both sides and let us figure it out. We talked and became really good friends, even to this day!

Humans aren’t perfect. I’m not saying bullying is good, but the best solution is not to punishment. I’d certainly spiral out of control and become a monster had I been kicked out.

Scandinavian pedagogy is great!

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#178

Post by antisemiotic »

manfredo wrote: post #145
momokoko wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's pick one. Either: 1. Allow for potential bullying and sexual harassment and other things kids put each other through. 2. Monitor every single thing they do and police them at all times. We as a society need to make a choice. You cannot have a perfectly safe and positive environment at all times for children(and adults) without constant and detailed monitoring. My guess is that the correct answer l…

Or 3. don't monitor anyone, but have mechanisms to report and resolve instances of harassment and bullying. Protection doesn't have to be proactive, it's perfectly fine to be reactive in most circumstances.

From what I remember about school, snitching on bullies would be a great way to get bullied more, even more effective than the classic "just ignore the bullies and they'll lose interest".

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#179

Post by Avamander »

0815test wrote: post #172
Avamander wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resisting mental violence doesn't work. It seeps trough defenses. Kind-of like "Don't think about a Pink Elephant".

> Resisting mental violence doesn't work. It seeps trough defenses. What? It absolutely does, especially compared to the alternative of not doing it. Your kid must simply internalize the fact that they're trying to get a reaction out of him/her , and that's the only motive behind what they're saying. Oh, and that people who act like that are very unlikely to ever be friendly to you; and in particular, trying to cater…

> It absolutely does, especially compared to the alternative of not doing it.

Absolutely doesn't compared to eliminating the person afflicting the mental violence.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#180

Post by mixmastamyk »

handzbagz1 wrote: post #175
mixmastamyk wrote: post #37

It's not clear from the article how the system monitors encrypted social media traffic. Perhaps Twitter as it is public afterward, right? Or does it look for public posts to local groups in Facebook? Or everyone has location tagging on posts on other sites? How are these companies getting their information to analyze?

I'm not sure if this is what you mean but most of these systems install a HTTPS certificate on the device so they can analyse the data and re-encrypt it.

And how to do that on random mobile devices in the area?
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