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Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

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Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#121

Post by mieseratte »

notathingreally wrote: post #75
elliekelly wrote: post #54

> Evergreen Public Schools in Washington state, for example, started using the company's service this school year. Between September and mid-March, the system flagged more than 9,000 incidents in the 26,000-student district. The overwhelming majority-84 percent-were for minor violations, such as profanity. The fact that the system even monitors for profanity at all tells me its purpose has a lot more to do with stude…

That was exactly my thought. How does finding an assignment with the word "pussy" in it help anyone? (Plus if it's an assignment, wouldn't the teacher eventually see it? WTF?) I just don't get what parents and school administrators think they're achieving with this given the potential harm that can come from it. Were I a parent, I certainly wouldn't want some random person at the school to have access to everything m…

Having had my 1A rights flagrantly violated by a petty administrator, I wholeheartedly agree. We need to worry about surveilling dysfunctional bureaucrats and their behavior, not students.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#122

Post by dragonwriter »

treis wrote: post #67
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

>OK, I think we really need to investigate protecting the privacy of our youth. This is effectvely acclimating our children to minimal privacy as enforced by authoritarian organizations. There's no privacy when you post things publicly on the internet.

> There's no privacy when you post things publicly on the internet.

Arguably, making material posted by children on the internet public without approval of a responsible adult should itself be considered a dnagerous privacy violation, given the history of such material being leveraged for cyberstalking and cyberbullying—not exclusively by school administratoes whose zeal exceeds their judgement and competence, but also by other children and by adults other than school administrators—and also those seeking targets to groom for sexual abuse.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#123

Post by kevin_b_er »

momokoko wrote: post #31
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its popular to create false dichotomies. Like this one. How about: monitor them sometimes and train them into good behavior patterns, so as to create a population of civil citizens You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance. Like any civil society.

> You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance You absolutely, positively, cannot have that. Bullying is an all day every day thing with children. Especially boys. The only way you prevent it all the time is to never leave boys alone in a group with no monitoring or supervision. Edit: If you are downvoting or disagreeing with this, you are part of the absurdly unreasonable expecta…

This is a highly sexist view. Girls are just as merciless, often moreso, but will often stick more to psychological abuse. You can ignore this bullying all you want, but it is the new tactic for a few decades now.

The bully doesn't have to touch their target. They just need to psychologically abuse them until they get a physical reaction out of their target. Then zero tolerance comes in and the target is punished. The bully gets off free and the message is pounded home: You are not allowed to question or react to the bullies cruelty. That is the consequence of their "zero tolerance" and of your sexist viewpoint toward the bullying requiring physical acts.

It is a zero tolerance for victims alone and high tolerance for psychological abuse that is favored by girls.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#124

Post by DoubleCribble »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

I disagree. The lesson here is: you teach the students how to protect their anonymity. For example, would you ever sign your name to some rude graffiti/foul language you drew in the boys/girls bathroom stall at school? Of course not! Why is online any different?

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#125

Post by TheOperator »

elliekelly wrote: post #54

> Evergreen Public Schools in Washington state, for example, started using the company's service this school year. Between September and mid-March, the system flagged more than 9,000 incidents in the 26,000-student district. The overwhelming majority-84 percent-were for minor violations, such as profanity. The fact that the system even monitors for profanity at all tells me its purpose has a lot more to do with stude…

I don't nessecarily have an issue with surveillance systems as they act as force multipliers for all sorts of noble causes.

Surveillance systems should strictly be used for physical safety, anti-vandalism, and loss prevention purposes. You're not preparing kids to succeed by micromanaging them from behind a series of monitors. At all. People who intend to use the system to punish the kids for swearing by no means should be allowed access. The teachers and even the principal really shouldn't even have access to reduce the temptation to abuse the surveillance system. If they keep getting access the surveillance system should be thrown in the trash.

Bosses who use similar systems to keep their employees working can also expect nothing better than mediocrity and a widespread CYA mentality.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#126

Post by shrimp_emoji »

yepguy wrote: post #21

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children. Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an inc…

>they are being demanded to conform to an increasingly narrow range of acceptable behavior, and conditioned to develop about as unhealthy a relationship with authority figures as possible.

Wait, I thought that was school in a nutshell already. :D That's certainly all it did for me until I hit college.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#127

Post by rotrux »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #9
Mirioron wrote: post #7

I cannot believe that these people are so dense: > "Why would it have a chilling effect if the superintendent of the school might see something that slips through the system about someone went hunting?" he asked. "There's no threat." How is the following not harm? > He pointed to a recent incident in which Social Sentinel flagged a college student who threatened on Twitter to shoot his professor for scheduling an ear…

They're not dense. These people consider that kind of stuff perfectly acceptable because they have a world view in which living in totalitarian society is acceptable. Their world view simply does not align with yours or mine. They simply do not consider the use these kind of systems to be fundamentally incompatible with free society the way you or I do.

This thread is frustrating. First off, there's a typo in the quote. The word "who" is missing: "..someone who went hunting?"

Second off, even if the missing word was "we": "...someone we went hunting." The CEO of the company supplying the software has a direct incentive to see things from the other side. It's not denseness; it's business.

This is not a battle between totalitarians and freedom fighters, it's a battle between those who think security is more important within this context, and those who think privacy is more important within this context.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#128

Post by TheOperator »

panzagl wrote: post #113
esaym wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At that point they should have expelled you- That is an interesting point. "Get rid of the bad so the good can flourish". Which is opposite of the "equity" doctrine so popular over the last year. I don't know what 'expelled' means in your definition. I was kicked out of the normal high school and sent to an 'alternative placement center' full of troubled youth several times. That was part of the reason I never faile…

Oh yeah, nobody who is an educator would ever say such a thing. But as the spouse of one you can only hear so many stories of behavior before you start asking what the other students were learning while one kid goes on a 15 minute meltdown. But it's really dangerous where that thinking leads- so much of school performance/behavior is tied to family situations that it can go to some dark places if you replace the comp…

>You can only hear so many stories of behavior before you start asking what the other students were learning while one kid goes on a 15 minute meltdown.

They're learning how to deal with people which is more important than the crap on the whiteboard.

I hear so much about how our schools are held back by accomidating problem students. Yet in my experience it was the students always disrupting the lesson plan and the class that caused me to learn shit. The teacher left to their own devices will merely teach kids how to get great marks in academic subjects which is a horrible waste of everybodies time. It only teaches people how to open doors.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#129

Post by dmitrygr »

spaginal wrote: post #107
thrower123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullying seems to be such a massively larger problem these days, compared to when I was in grade school a couple decades ago. Or at least people are hyper-aware of it. I suppose part of it is that it's not really acceptable to turn around and punch somebody in the mouth if they are being an obnoxious shit anymore. If it is just allowed to slide, the harassment escalates over time, especially in an environment like a…

I think zero tolerance on both parties plays a large part into this. I was mercilessly bullied in elementary school until I attacked my bully at recess in 6th grade. I’m almost 40 now and it still stands out as a pivotal moment in my growth into an adult. That one action stopped the behavior for good and I wasn’t severely punished for it. It also settled down the kid who bullied me. I know now that schools can punish…

Parents can probably help here. School is unlikely to punish the bullied for self-defense if a parent threatens a VERY PUBLIC VERY EXPENSIVE LAWSUIT for his kid being punished for self-defense. Actual lawsuit not needed, the treat will likely be enough.

If our legal system provides for self-defense, schools should fall in line.

Yes, I know that enforcing this and finding out who hit whom first is hard, well, nobody said law (or rule) enforcement is easy!

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#130

Post by zepto »

TheOperator wrote: post #125
elliekelly wrote: post #54

> Evergreen Public Schools in Washington state, for example, started using the company's service this school year. Between September and mid-March, the system flagged more than 9,000 incidents in the 26,000-student district. The overwhelming majority-84 percent-were for minor violations, such as profanity. The fact that the system even monitors for profanity at all tells me its purpose has a lot more to do with stude…

I don't nessecarily have an issue with surveillance systems as they act as force multipliers for all sorts of noble causes. Surveillance systems should strictly be used for physical safety, anti-vandalism, and loss prevention purposes. You're not preparing kids to succeed by micromanaging them from behind a series of monitors. At all. People who intend to use the system to punish the kids for swearing by no means sho…

What noble causes do they currently act as force multipliers for?
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