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Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

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Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#171

Post by TeMPOraL »

noir_lord wrote: post #170
TeMPOraL wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% seconding your observation; I've been arguing something similar myself for a while too. That's why I'm totally serious when I say, ban the shit out of the advertising industry. Burn it to the ground, with legislative fire. Half of this crap comes from advertisers and ad-supported sites (the other probably mostly from airlines). This won't solve everything, but would be a nice start. There will always be scoundre…

Turn on feature you really don’t want? Combined with asking you constantly if you say no and never asking again if you say yes. I hate that shit and it creates a negative feeling for me towards whatever product is doing it, if I’m aware you are trying to trick me why would I trust you. It must work (for some set of work) though or they wouldn’t do it.

> It must work (for some set of work) though or they wouldn’t do it.

Tired people, busy people, people who don't understand any of it. I too sometimes just click through consent forms without reading, 'cause ain't nobody has time for this crap, but I'm happy with the knowledge that GDPR makes this mostly safe (and in cases where it doesn't, at some point I'll start sending data access and removal requests just out of spite).

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#172

Post by awalton »

Probably not strict enough. ISPs are just going to shrinkwrap their contracts with an extra clause saying they're selling your data unless you write them a letter to some address which they will check at a ridiculously low frequency or have to call through a call center and deal with every salesman and their brother and sister flabberghasted at such a request while passing it on to their "superior" for an hour at a time while you sit on hold waiting... and in the meantime will sell your data. The law really should have made it completely opt-in only (which nobody would reasonably do) or just bar it completely.

They already know all the tricks to stop people getting out of their contracts, they're just going to start applying that to this kind of opt-out situation too.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#173

Post by bb88 »

ssalka wrote: post #159
ssss11 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Won’t the customer consent just become a line in the T&C’s and unless you accept it you can’t use their service? This would be a similar situation to the cookie disclaimers.

Isn't this covered by: > The bill prohibits a provider from refusing to serve a customer...if the customer...does not consent to the use, disclosure, sale or access [of their data]. ?

Without reading the bill, not necessarily.

It's entirely feasible to have two classes of customers, right? One that agreed to the provision, and one that didn't. One that gets a 500GB data cap, and one that gets 150GB, say.

Just because you serve a customer doesn't mean you must serve them equally. Afterall, technically, they are serving the customer, right?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#174

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

rapind wrote: post #63
khawkins wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…

Because it's rife with bad actors due to a lack of regulation. And even the good actors are kind of forced to be bad actors in order to compete. Lacking better regulation it's just a horrible business model for consumers, with really no exceptions since anyone who plays nice will ultimately lose out to less scrupulous players.

Could you provide some examples of the kinds of regulations that you believe are required?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#175

Post by ryanisnan »

inetknght wrote: post #40
ryanisnan wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each and every time? As a user who understands and consents to that request, that would be incredibly annoying.

Your consent should be considered an outlier and should not be used to hinder my lack thereof.

For clarity, I do not share the opinion that I stated, only recognized that people do have it.

I'm not too sure how one user consenting to the data sharing guidelines should affect your experience. Elaborate?

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#176

Post by ryanisnan »

jhayward wrote: post #165
marmada wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think their consent is an outlier. Most users are somewhat ok with selling their data in exchange for free services. I mean I use Gmail, Google Search, Google Maps, etc. etc. knowing they hoover up my data because, in the end, I value the ability to have these services for free more than I care about Google's ability to collect useful statistics about me/its users.

> As a user who understands and consents to that request They can't really consent, because no-one truly understands what it is that they are agreeing to. It is simply not possible to have informed consent about the use, re-sale, re-combination, re-identification, long-term storage, profiling, credit/employment/health/housing impacts, etc. It's not possible to consent because you can't tell what you are giving away a…

I do agree that this is probably the bigger issue. A lack of understanding of what exactly you are agreeing to. If that is solved, however, then a continual request for consent would be a non-starter for any service use, making the whole point moot.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#177

Post by talaketu »

bb88 wrote: post #173
ssalka wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this covered by: > The bill prohibits a provider from refusing to serve a customer...if the customer...does not consent to the use, disclosure, sale or access [of their data]. ?

Without reading the bill, not necessarily. It's entirely feasible to have two classes of customers, right? One that agreed to the provision, and one that didn't. One that gets a 500GB data cap, and one that gets 150GB, say. Just because you serve a customer doesn't mean you must serve them equally. Afterall, technically, they are serving the customer, right?

wrong. it should take > (2) Charge a customer a penalty or offer a customer a discount based on the customer's decision to provide or not provide consent under paragraph A.

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#178

Post by dredmorbius »

mrguyorama wrote: post #11

I couldn't find links to the actual bill anywhere so I tracked it down: http://legislature.maine.gov/LawMakerWeb/summary.asp?ID=2800... The summary: "This bill prohibits a provider of broadband Internet access service from using, disclosing, selling or permitting access to customer personal information unless the customer expressly consents to that use, disclosure, sale or access. The bill provides other exceptions u…

Specifically (though there are proposed amendments) http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/bills/getPDF.asp?paper...

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#179

Post by dredmorbius »

ryanisnan wrote: post #36
malloreon wrote: post #35

I look forward to the day when selling user's data requires the user's opt-in every single time a third party wants to access that data. No more "yes to all" or allowing blanket usage in TOS/EULAs. People who use apps that sell their data should be bombarded with requests to use that data each and every single time, until they either decide the app isn't worth it or the app decides they should try a different busines…

Each and every time? As a user who understands and consents to that request, that would be incredibly annoying.

thatsthepoint.gif

Re: Maine passes bill to prevent ISPs from selling browsing data without consent

#180

Post by dredmorbius »

kelnos wrote: post #75
khawkins wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand the extreme hostility to data collection and data markets. No one likes ads, but no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If I'm going to see ads, I'd rather them be something I might potentially find useful than something irrelevant. If I end up buying their product, the exchange is mutually beneficial and both parties walk away with value from th…

> no one wants to have to pay a subscription fee to every single site on the internet. If we had a reasonable micropayments system so I could spend a few cents per article I read online from non-subscription sites, I'd be thrilled. I do not want to see ads, ever. I do not want companies collecting or selling my activity patterns. If I've signed up for something, I don't want my personal details sold to someone else i…

Not micropayments. Macropayments.

Tiered to nominal standards of use.

Centrally collected over a large set of services.

With an open and public process of service determination and interest advocacy.

With a disinterested-party dispute resolution process.

Predicated on ability to pay.

Taxes.

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