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Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

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Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#171
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if we lose control chances are we can't make a living - which is why the law enforces your property rights That is a circular justification. People can only make a living from IP because of the law, so one cannot then justify the existence of the law because it helps people make a living. IP law, by definition, invents an artificial obstruction of other people's rights to copy. There must be a good reason for that.…

It's only a circular argument if you take property as an arbitrary axiom that can't be investigated further. People need to use their mind to survive --> people must be able to reap the benefits of their mind/creativity to survive --> people must control the produce of their work/creativity to survive --> people should have property rights protected by the government Property, including IP, is just a natural extensio…

> people must be able to reap the benefits of their mind/creativity to survive --> people must control the produce of their work/creativity to survive

There is the flaw: the second does not follow from the first. There is no necessary requirement that produce -- in this context copies -- be controlled.

Consider the basic logic/physics of abstract goods. There is no necessary dependence of production on subsequent copies. In fact it is the opposite: the copies depend on production. It is perfectly conceivable that things be produced -- and the producers paid for that -- without any restriction of copies.

And this is clear in practice. Take an architect for example. They are commissioned and then design a building: they have done intellectual work and been paid for it, and so 'reaped the benefits' of their creativity to survive. Yet there has been no need for restriction on copies of their designs.

> The point of IP is that it's the produce of someone's mind, . . . If you copy it without permission . . . you're undermining somebody's ability to benefit from their creativity

But as explained above, this is not essential: it is only true for a particular, contingent, commercial arrangement.

You see that production is good, and also that copies are good too. What I ask is that you see that there is no essential need that one should restrict the other. And since both do us good, surely we would want to do both. What we want is a system that supports people to produce and allows freedom of copying.

This is why the pragmatic argument is the only plausible one. If we don't need, for practical reasons, to restrict copies, why would we? How can it be moral? What good does it do us? The idea that people have some intrinsic right to interfere with others, based merely on creatorship, is nonsensical and utterly self-destructive.

Just compare the limit cases (and since it is already established there is no necessary dependence of production on copies, we can look just at the copying aspect). Either: with free copying/sharing, we all greatly magnify our access to good stuff, at no cost to anyone. In a group of 100, if each of us makes some music, everyone has 100 pieces of music to listen to. Or: with absolutist IP, we all keep our own stuff (our own 'property') to ourselves, and so we all have much less stuff available to us. If each of us makes some music, everyone has only one piece of music to listen to. -- And what could be the justification there? that we 'know without doubt' we are doing the right thing? -- Which community to join is an easy choice.

It is not possible to say a priori what particular structures of organisation or commerce are efficient. But it is possible to say the moral essentials mean we should prefer free-sharing rather than copy-restricting.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#172
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's very simple. If you don't want the music you created to be available free of charge, don't release it! If you don't want your car to be stolen then don't leave it in the street. If you don't want to be run over then don't walk anywhere. ... Seriously, if you one day forget to lock something up do you really think people should be free to help themselves to it? If you don't like the current music regime, don't b…

"If you don't want your car to be stolen then don't leave it in the street." There are a number of underlying assumption in your analogy. - The first is that, like the car, the music you create is owned by you. - The second is that, like the car, the music you create can be stolen. - The third is that it is as unethical to share music as it is to steal cars. All of these propositions are very debatable. "Seriously, i…

I wasn't aiming for a perfect analogy but it stands up better to scrutiny than you assume also. The car is owned by you just as the music is - you can assume that music can not be owned, but the sorts of arguments that work there also work for cars (which is fine by me, I've got a communist streak in me for sure). The important point is that you are in control of the car except for forced use against the law (in most jurisdictions) just as you are in control of the music excepting illegal (OK tortuous) use.

I wasn't saying that the music could be stolen, just taken in a way that is against the law. Equally the car can be "borrowed" it can be taken without denying you use - we still find it illegal even if your car is taken against your will when you wouldn't have otherwise be using it (perhaps this is wrong but I wasn't expanding the locus to consider alternate legal/societal structures). This speaks then to your final point.

You deliberately scope the use of copyright works without permission as "sharing" because this is almost always used in a positive sense. Well taking your car without asking is also sharing if you wish to spin it that way; I didn't say they damaged the vehicle, you still can have it later when you wish to use it.

For sure the analogy breaks down but not as badly as you portrayed.

You may have been attempting to withhold moral judgement but your tone conveyed the sense that the onus is with the creator of artistic works, the copyright holder, to hide their work and not with the public to not rip off that work. Note that we as a society (at least those countries that are democratic and signed up to Berne Convention and TRIPS IP provisions) have made a deal that we will protect creators of artistic works from being ripped off and ensure they get paid fairly as long as they will release their works to the public domain after a given period but before that we will enable them to enforce a monopoly on control of those works. This deal has been sullied over time by big business but it's still in place.

Yes, if no one can be trusted to keep to their promises or indeed to obey the law then it's naive to assume the law will be obeyed. I'm not at that place where I assume everyone in a democracy is so uncivilised and self-seeking that they care nothing for the rule of law.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#173
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I shop-lift a screwdriver from home depot and then return it a week later is that stealing? Actually, no. If you intend to return it in the original condition, so they can still sell it, then legally speaking it isn't theft. (It may still be illegal, I don't know.) Just to clarify, I'm not claiming anything about piracy here.

Actually, legally, it is theft. The crime is taking the property from the store without their permission. Whether or not you intend to return in its original condition is beside the point.

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

Actually, I'm not sure that US law is the same. But that's how it is in England.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#174
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, legally, it is theft. The crime is taking the property from the store without their permission. Whether or not you intend to return in its original condition is beside the point.

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Actually, I'm not sure that US law is the same. But that's how it is in England.

That's close to the "Restatement" (law school) definition of theft in America. In practice, the statutory definitions of theft are far more expansive, and even where they aren't, case law has made the standard for "permanent deprivation" ridiculously low.

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#175
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are parallels, but surely there's a large, morally important difference between sneaking onto a half empty train with $50 seats, and stealing $50 from someone's wallet.

Is there such a large, morally important difference? I am going to simplify a lot here, but let's say that the train operator has a fixed operating cost and has a profit target, from which they know the gross revenue that they want over the next quarter. They know how many rides they expect people to pay for, so they divide the target gross revenue by the number of trips to get the ticket price. Assuming that the tra…

This would be a good (though not airtight) argument if the person would pay the $50 if he could not sneak on. But in fact, most people who torrent gigabytes of music would not pay for it if they couldn't get it for free.

In fact, piracy in this case seems to partially solve the fundamental economics problem. The marginal cost of music is zero, so if people who wouldn't pay full price aren't getting the music, then there is lost utility for society. By giving those people music for free (and, unrealistically, holding everything else constant) it's a Pareto improvement.

(And I'm not trying to avoid the argument that stealing $50 from society is morally he same as stealing $50 from a single person; it pretty much is. I'm just saying that the reason that we correctly intuit that sneaking on to a train is less worse than stealing from a wallet is because of considerations like those I've described.)

Re: Author Slams eBook Piracy, Son Outs Her As a Music Pirate

#176
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". Actually, I'm not sure that US law is the same. But that's how it is in England.

That's close to the "Restatement" (law school) definition of theft in America. In practice, the statutory definitions of theft are far more expansive, and even where they aren't, case law has made the standard for "permanent deprivation" ridiculously low.

Fair enough. Thanks for the correction.
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