U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#171

Post by hurr_durr » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 6:42 AM UTC

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

All this crying about how evil Huawei is is absolutely hysterical.

Also interesting that so many westerners with a passing understanding of the Chinese language or have been to China a couple times are suddenly experts.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#172

Post by camillomiller » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

dgzl wrote: post #166

In a Data Structures class a few years ago, during a review for our upcoming exam, the professor had to abruptly leave the room... I forget why. While they were gone, a Chinese student runs up to the podium and grabs the papers the professor was reading from and takes it back to their large friend group. When the professor returned, they didn't have their notes (I think it was a previous year exam). Feeling uncomfort…

Then what? They waved their red book and ate some roasted dog? Jeez, this is the most racist thing I’ve ever read on hacker news.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#173

Post by dc443 » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:12 AM UTC

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

I don't get it. What you wrote and what you're responding to are not in contradiction with one another. On what basis is what GP said a lie? What relevance does 5G have to anything?

Progress in technology is progress regardless.

I just watched a few episodes of Black Mirror so I'm in cynical mode. I'm not trying to be argumentative but it just felt more like a non-sequitur than anything...

Progress is good (mostly), though, right?

As for which economies that progress happens to bolster, well, let the chips fall where they may, I suppose.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#174

Post by camillomiller » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

seppin wrote: post #73

dmode wrote: post #31

I am really concerned about the rapid development of the Huawei case. Sure Huawei has issues, but which corporation doesn’t. If you are an US exec, I would limit travel to China as one can risk being arrested for frivolous reasons.

If Apple execs conducted espionage on behalf of the US Government, they should be targeted. The concern is, they don't, but they will still be targeted.

So far the only major international espionage scandal that was proven (unless you consider Snowden a liar) was the NSA scandal, which showed how American companies were involved in an international scheme (willingly or not, it doesn’t matter) to spy on both allied nations and enemy countries. Nothing like that has ever emerged about China.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#175

Post by CathayRe » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:18 AM UTC

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

>Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.

And..... they are also the only full 4G solution provider. None of the other telecom infrastructure companies have client side business. Arguably Samsung do, but that are relatively new. But that doesn't prove anything.

Credit where Credit's due Huawei has made fair amount of contribution towards 5G. But they don't own 5G like what the Chinese Media states, and they are not the number one in total 5G patents either as many Chinese Media likes to put it.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#176

Post by majia » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:19 AM UTC

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

Most Chinese people are not proud of stolen technologies. Recently, a small Chinese internet company, Redcore, marketed a chromium based web browser as a indigenous innovation without acknowledgement. This sparked a public outcry in China and the company was forced to apologize and retract its claims.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#177

Post by CathayRe » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:25 AM UTC

peteretep wrote: post #157

product50 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an overreach but a testament to how strong US' global standing is. I bet only US could have pulled this off. No other country, despite what crimes Huawei conducted against them could have done this.

> No other country, despite what crimes Huawei conducted against them could have done this This isn't the first person Canada has extradited. Italy, China, Netherlands and Mozambique all make an appearance in the list of people worthy enough to also have Wikipedia pages[0]. European countries regularly refuse to extradite people to the US if they think they're at risk from the death penalty there. America may be larg…

And yet China is making a big deal about it, saying they are unfairly treated, No Chinese should ever be extradited. US and Western Nation coming to harm again.

If that is how the act when they are considering themselves the underdog or developing countries, imagine what they will do when they are full evolved.

Note: Of course US and many other countries aren't Sane either. But the tone used by the Chinese have never been so strong. It is as if they were back to Tsing Dynasty.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#178

Post by ezVoodoo » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:29 AM UTC

CathayRe wrote: post #175

ezVoodoo wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one who speaks Chinese, I find what you said is a blatant lie. In deed, “打破技术封锁” means to break the technical blockade, but by means of independent innovation, not stealing "trade secrets". Given China has the biggest force of engineers and scientists in the world, it is not so hard to understand. Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US.…

>Fact check, Huawei is the only full 5G solution provider in the world; whereas no such company can be found in the US. And..... they are also the only full 4G solution provider. None of the other telecom infrastructure companies have client side business. Arguably Samsung do, but that are relatively new. But that doesn't prove anything. Credit where Credit's due Huawei has made fair amount of contribution towards 5G…

No, Huawei does not own all the 5G patents/technology; so it must have stolen from other countries?

So when you want something you don't own, the only option is to steal? I find your logic so absurd. Then how much is the US stealing everyday?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#179

Post by ahoyleo » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:58 AM UTC

seppin wrote: post #121

thetechlead wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're welcome to read all my posts and comments, and they are public. I have been reading hacker news for a few years and only recently wanted to sign up. so what's your point?

You are nakedly cheerleading for an authoritarian China and it's creepy and weird.

So it must be shills to be supportive of China? Have you considered supporting China may be quite a popular opinion among the Chinese people both domestically and overseas?

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#180

Post by adventured » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #116

mikejb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. Reminds me of the movie "Firefox" [1] with Clint Eastwood. The plot? An all-American hero sneaks deep into the UDSSR to steal a new high-tech aircraft. And I'm pretty sure Hollywood is still pumping out ideological crap like that. [1] https://www.imdb.com/t…

Interesting comparison, given that Firefox was set in the context of the Cold War. The US and China certainly seem to be developing this kind of "frenemy" relationship where they're competitors and at the same time they're commercial partners. How different would the Cold War have been if the U.S.S.R. had done the lion's share of the U.S.'s manufacturing?

It's an interesting premise, however it probably would have been impossible.

China - which has never come even remotely close to doing the lionshare of US manufacturing [1] - required enormous capital to be invested by US (and European) companies to build up their manufacturing base. That capital needed to exist first before it could be invested into Chinese factories. The US got dramatically richer from 1950 to 1970 (GDP went from $280b to $1t, during the strong gold dollar era), while it dominated global manufacturing. The wealth it built up in those decades of manufacturing hegemony is what in part enabled the US to deploy such immense capital into China in the following decades.

The US wouldn't have had the accumulated wealth and consumer base to utilize the USSR as a manufacturing offshore and make the necessary investments, minus the post war domestic manufacturing boom. Unless we're talking about doing that at the very end of the USSR in the late 1980s, after US manufacturing had already peaked and begun to decline. (obviously this is all fantasy, because the USSR's policies would never have allowed for the scenario, but it's an interesting thought experiment regardless)

Also, given the USSR's population ratio with China (~260m people in the USSR versus 980m in China circa 1980), it would have been impossible on a more practical basis, for them to output so much. The USSR's economy was never known for having world-class efficiency and scale of output. They never mastered high quality massive scale manufacturing. I'm skeptical the bureaucracy would have ever made it possible. It's likely they couldn't have output but a modest fraction of US manufacturing needs under any scenario.

[1] US manufacturing output was about ~$2.1 trillion for 2018. Imports from China for 2018 were something like $560 billion. Approximately a 4x difference.