Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 216 posts

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#171

Post by beatgammit »

2bitencryption wrote: post #132
umvi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. It's inexplicable when there are alternative phones available for 1/10 the cost. Why would you choose to take on a $40/mo expense when you could buy an entire fully functioning low end Android phone for $40? >…

What if the iPhones make them happy, and your Nokia 520 would not? What if they're just pursuing their happiness? What if the value of that happiness is more than the value they could have saved with a budget junker phone? What if their lives are not very happy, but this one thing makes them happy? Is it worth it then? I would argue yes. This reminds me of that infamous Fox News talking point: "Look at these people,…

That's a lot of what ifs.

I bet that they'd be happier with a crappier phone when they lose their job and have enough savings to ride out looking for a new one. In fact, they'd probably find a better paying job if they didn't have to take the first one they could land.

The problem with poverty is that many think "that's how life is" and don't realize that they can get out of the cycle. If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food and a fancy phone bill. In fact, the average cell phone bill for an individual is ~$70, or around $1k per year, and nearly half spend over $100[1]. Having a month's pay in cash means you have that much longer to find a new job, and can withstand emergencies like a broken car that often result in taking on payday loans or the like.

Yes, they probably think that their fancy phone makes them happy, but I think it's quite the opposite because it's increasing the frequency of financial stressors.

The happiest people aren't the ones with the most stuff, but the ones with the most financial stability.

- [1] http://business.time.com/2012/10/18/47-a-month-why-youre-pro...

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#172

Post by [deleted] »

umvi wrote: post #80
post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

I'm a well off software developer. I've been using a $50 Nokia Lumia 520 for the past 3 years or so. When this one dies I'll likely "splurge" and buy a Nokia 2 ($100). That our I'll buy a Blu phone ($50). I would consider my neighbors poor. They have state-subsidized rent, for example. They use food stamps. They also smoke a pack a day each. All they need to do to buy a new phone is not smoke for 5 days. Not that it…

[deleted]

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#173

Post by beatgammit »

post_break wrote: post #120
duck wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "blue bubble"?

He's referring to imessage vs sms. People put weight into if you have an iPhone or not. If you're not a blue bubble, you're a lesser class in america (TO SOME PEOPLE).

That sounds like a great way to avoid people I won't like. If someone will judge me because of the things I own or don't own, I don't want to associate with them either.

In fact, I think this is a fantastic reason to avoid iPhones. I'm super excited about the Librem 5[1], and I'll be extra happy to be even that less desirable to these types of people.

- [1] https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#174

Post by scarface74 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26
chrisco255 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, the availability of cheap credit has made me worry a bit less about getting slammed with some unexpected expense. That's not to say that I don't put money away for retirement and rainy days...but credit cards do make it easier to float if you suddenly find yourself unemployed.

I’ve never heard anyone refer to 20%+ interest as cheap credit until now.

I get checks weekly to borrow against my credit card for a 3% fee and a year before interesr is charged. If I get laid off because of micro economic issues (my employer went bust) and not macro issues (the entire economy sucks), as a software developer/architect, I can basically email my list of local recruiters and have a job or at least a contract within two weeks. That’s not theoretical. Over 20 years it’s never taken me more than a three weeks from the time I started looking to having another job.

I’m not saying using a credit card instead of savings is a good idea.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#175

Post by scarface74 »

ams6110 wrote: post #134
refurb wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get an unsecured line of credit at your bank for a lot less than 20%. Or find one of those credit cards with 0% APR for the first 12 months.

Generally hard to do with no current income. Or don't they check?

Lending Club didn’t ask me for proof of income awhile back.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#176

Post by beatgammit »

sjg007 wrote: post #164
flukus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not wrong, people that can't pay cash for a phone shouldn't be buying one. But there are a lot of expenses in that range that are more of a necessity, car tyres that OP mentioned, other car expenses, removalists fees and bond payments, a fridge breaking down. There's some even bigger ones you can't put off like funeral expenses or missing work for medical reasons. A $500 phone gets used as an example because i…

You can finanace an iPhone for basically 0%.. and it could last you 5+ years. Example are the iPhone 5s that are still quite usable.

And how much does that cost compared to less expensive options? At $1k for an iPhone, you're paying $200/year if it lasts you 5 years, more if you stay on the upgrade wagon.

My phone cost me $250 (Moto x4) and it's an improvement on my previous $400+ phone (Nexus 6). I could buy a new one nearly every year for the price of making payments on an iPhone.

But people see a top-of-the-line product at a monthly cost they can afford and jump on it, not realizing that they could buy a cheaper option and get much more financial stability, and thus much less stress.

And yes, it's not just phones, but to me it's a symbol of the other decisions you make it life. Nearly everyone I know who complains when payroll is a day or two later than expected has a way nicer phone than me, drives a nicer car, and eats out a ton. I, on the other hand, have a house I can afford, am well above average on retirement, and have enough cash in the bank to survive without a job for several months without touching my investments.

If people realized that they could be out of debt in just a couple years of living more frugally, I'm sure they'd do it. But people just assume they'll be stuck, so they don't even try and spend everything in luxuries now.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#177

Post by scarface74 »

post_break wrote: post #62

People cannot buy a phone outright. It's that bad. We're literally financing a $500-1000 device because they can't take the hit up front. Now I'm sure most people here could swing a phone tomorrow if they needed to say theirs was stolen, but you gotta think about how many people just can't. How about tires, there are places to rent tires. Financing a car? Common. 8 payments to put two front tires on your car? Seems i…

Why would you not “finance” the phone? All the carriers basically have payment plans where they just take the cost of the phone and divide payments by 24-36 months. You don’t pay interest and there is no markup.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#178

Post by scarface74 »

umvi wrote: post #123
michaelchisari wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. Also, cigarettes are an appetite suppressant and in many places are cheaper than food. Food stamps are hardly comprehensive. Cheaper, that is, until it all catches up to you medically. One thing I've learned in m…

> Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. It's inexplicable when there are alternative phones available for 1/10 the cost. Why would you choose to take on a $40/mo expense when you could buy an entire fully functioning low end Android phone for $40? >…

I’m not saying they should buy iPhones. But if a smart phone is thier only computer, it makes perfect sense to buy a higher end phone.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#179

Post by SwellJoe »

seiferteric wrote: post #159
SwellJoe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know so many folks deeply underwater because they "floated" on credit card debt during lean times. I've been there, even, when I started my first company I ended up racking up tens of thousands of dollars worth of credit card debt, before finding a profitable niche (several years later than I expected...when I quit my first job I had $$36,000 in savings, which at ~25 seemed like a lot of money). It's pretty dangero…

That's not the same thing, you funded your company on credit cards...

Meh, more like paid my mortgage and bought food.

But, even if we frame it as funding a company on credit cards, it was a mistake, and one I would discourage others from making.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#180

Post by scarface74 »

beatgammit wrote: post #171
2bitencryption wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the iPhones make them happy, and your Nokia 520 would not? What if they're just pursuing their happiness? What if the value of that happiness is more than the value they could have saved with a budget junker phone? What if their lives are not very happy, but this one thing makes them happy? Is it worth it then? I would argue yes. This reminds me of that infamous Fox News talking point: "Look at these people,…

That's a lot of what ifs. I bet that they'd be happier with a crappier phone when they lose their job and have enough savings to ride out looking for a new one. In fact, they'd probably find a better paying job if they didn't have to take the first one they could land. The problem with poverty is that many think "that's how life is" and don't realize that they can get out of the cycle. If people in poverty saved just…

If people in poverty saved just $20 per week, they'd have $1000 in one year, which is nearly a month's pay at minimum wage. $20 per week is likely the amount they spend on "luxury" items, like fast food

McDouble is 'cheapest and most nutritious food in human history'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-i...

Post reply on HN