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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#171

Post by hirundo »

porpoisely wrote: post #109
beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

> those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time It's so strange how prevalent it has become in the past few years to talk of human beings in terms of productivity. Growing up in the 90s, all the talk was about how we were mindless consumers. Now, all I hear is people talking of others and themselves as producers and productivity. How they feel about themselves and their worth depends on wh…

Reporting on productivity change is a reasonable way to quantify the social impact of a phenomenon, which allows people to compare it in scale to other issues, and prioritize scarce resources accordingly. Of course it's imperfect, and data is lost compared to a qualitative assessment of individual lives. But can you think of a consistently better quantitative measurement? Longevity?

We've recently seen a lot of coverage of the forecast that climate change could cause a 10% reduction in GDP by 2100. Your objections apply to this measure equally. But by quantifying the magnitude we can compare it to things like the cost of remediation.

Quantifying an effect also has the benefit of exposing the estimate to more effective refutation. The more numerate debate we subject policy preferences to, the stronger they'll be.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#172

Post by jogjayr »

rsync wrote: post #152
cpursley wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there is the widespread obesity because of corn syrup being a heavily subsidized food ingredient You forgot to mention that the US Gov't also subsides the other side via food stamps, which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods, further exasperating the obesity epidemic. It's true insanity.

"... which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods ..." This is true. It is truly insane that public food benefits can be used to buy soft drinks, sugar cereals and candy: "Soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, and ice cream are food items and are therefore eligible items"[1] [1] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

It doesn't seem insane to me, just a reflection of the reality that people sometimes buy unhealthy foods - for both legit and frivolous reasons.

Sometimes your kid will only eat sugary cereals for breakfast, because children can be fussy eaters. Or maybe you want to kick back with a can of Coke after a hard day at work (or need the caffeine to wake up for work in the morning, and coffee is too expensive). Or you want some Snickers bars to take on the train or bus to snack on. Policing what kind of food people spend their food stamps on seems like a pointless waste of time and government resources to me.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#173

Post by abootstrapper »

ams6110 wrote: post #144
enraged_camel wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They never pay the bill, because they can't. Do you understand how insanely expensive healthcare in this country is, especially if you're making minimum wage and have dependents? What do you suggest they do instead? Die? Let their kids die?

First, if you're making miniumum wage, don't have kids. If you do, you (or at least your kids) likely qualify for Medicaid, so you do get treatment. Often preferentially. I have been to providers who have a 6-8 week lead time on appointments for new private insurance patients, but Medicaid patients get in almost immediately.

So part of your solution to healthcare is poor people not having kids? How do intend we accomplish that?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#174

Post by dragonwriter »

bluedino wrote: post #124
josho wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late I saw this when travelling in the US for work. (I am Canadian). Striking up conversations in restaurants I met staff that worked while sick because they couldn't afford to take sick days, or worked with chronic conditions because they couldn't afford a visit to a doctor. Even worse are the major chronic diseases from our lifestyle (hypertension, diabetes, etc…

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated. It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated a…

> And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors.

Most providers (outside of ERs and the mandate for emergency stabilization therein, and some free clinics operated as charities) won't provide treatment without proof of insurance and any required co-payment upfront, or, for private pay clients upfront payment or fairly strong proof that payment will be collectible.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#175

Post by taway314 »

A lot of premature deaths are not just a direct result of suicide or drug abuse, but a deeper result of despair and isolation. Improved healthcare would help, but I feel like it's a cultural issue as well.

My grandfather died in his early 70's a few years ago. By any other measure, he should have lived well into his 80's. He had a comfortable middle-class life and was quite healthy when he was younger. But he spent the last decades of his life in rural Maryland with very little social contact. My family rarely visited him. For reasons I'm still unsure, my dad didn't talk to him for almost 2 decades. His physical and mental health really disintegrated.

My wife is from India, and I'm convinced that this sort of thing is more rare there. There is a strong, almost sacred connection between family members. If your parent is sick or unwell, you bring them into your house and take care of them. No questions asked. For the most part, the culture in (white, middle-class) America looks at things very differently, and I'm not really sure what the solution could be.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#176

Post by ocschwar »

Latteland wrote: post #155
ocschwar wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because wealthy aging boomers spend more on speculative anti-aging fads in a bull market.

Also because the us healthcare market is for profit and they have managed to blocked market reforms.

Lots of sectors of the economy are for profit, but they follow the S&P instead of leading it. Healthcare used to be a follower too. Now it's a leader.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#177

Post by briandear »

rhplus wrote: post #110
jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

shameless advertising on products where products that contain obscene amounts of corn syrup are advertised as "fat free" Ah, yes. In the US, Twizzlers are a "Low fat snack": https://www.hersheys.com/twizzlers/en_us/products/twizzlers-... In Canada, just candy: https://www.hersheys.com/twizzlers/en_ca/products/twizzlers-...

Twizzlers are a low fat snack. That is 100% true.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#178

Post by siruncledrew »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #67
beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

Someone replied to you with an ignorant comment that was deleted. I'm copy/pasting it here anyway because they are spewing common misconceptions that need to be squashed. > The US has 330 million people. Do we really care if a bunch self-select out of the gene pool? While some people do choose to use drugs with their own free will, this epidemic isn't about that. Many people getting addicted have been initially presc…

I hate pharma companies too, and think they definitely were a part of the gateway to addiction, but you should read more about how the overdoses are occurring.

As another user pointed out below: > "Drug-overdose deaths skyrocketed between 2015 and 2017, particularly for adults between ages 25 and 54. The main culprit was fentanyl and other synthetic opioids that became pervasive in illicit drug supplies in the U.S. around that time."

> "Deaths from synthetic opioids rose 45% in 2017, while the death rate from heroin, which had risen sharply after 2010, was flat."

Also: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/may/10/fentanyl-dru...

Synthetic opioid overdoses: https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/i...

People end up ingesting shit they don't even know about that's in their drugs (like chinese fentanyl) and then accidentally OD. It's still bad to overprescribe drugs, and this shows more legalization/regulation of drugs would be better to not have supplies randomly cut with whatever products some dealer has laying around.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#179

Post by ArchTypical »

scottlocklin wrote: post #99
adventured wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide rates in several other developed nations are either higher or compable to the US. Things must be really, really bad in Belgium, Finland and Iceland eh (you know, just three of the nicest countries on Earth). How could Sweden, France and Australia be anywhere near the US rate? Suicide rates in order per 100k: South Korea 20.2, Belgium 15.7, Japan 14.3, Finland 13.8, US 13.3, Iceland 13.3, France 12.1, Sweden 1…

I think it is rate of change which has people concerned. The rate of suicide in the US is up 25% in the last 15 years.

> The US is pretty much also the only country where suicides are increasing

So the initial assertion was not compelling.

> it is rate of change which has people concerned.

Do you have any source about people being concerned (what people?) for the new goalpost?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#180

Post by jellicle »

rsync wrote: post #152
cpursley wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then there is the widespread obesity because of corn syrup being a heavily subsidized food ingredient You forgot to mention that the US Gov't also subsides the other side via food stamps, which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods, further exasperating the obesity epidemic. It's true insanity.

"... which poor folks use to purchase corn syrup and cheap grain foods ..." This is true. It is truly insane that public food benefits can be used to buy soft drinks, sugar cereals and candy: "Soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, and ice cream are food items and are therefore eligible items"[1] [1] https://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/eligible-food-items

The amount of money we just gave Jeff Bezos for putting a headquarters near his new house would fund the entire US food stamp program for a week or two, or if you prefer depth instead of breadth, would fund food stamps for hundreds of thousands of people for the rest of their lives.
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