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Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

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Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#171

Post by mooreds »

scarface74 wrote: post #48
cperciva wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing lives forever even for AWS/Azure. Maybe not forever, but some things do live for a very long time. Amazon SimpleDB has been deprecated for over 5 years and Amazon works hard to discourage people from using it in any new applications... but it's still available and will continue to be available for the foreseeable future.

And if you have a really old account you can still use an instance outside of a VPC. I’ve never heard of any service that AWS has just outright abandoned.

I used to teach AWS courses and had the same experience. I haven't heard of any service that has been disabled for an existing account.

Yes, you are strongly discouraged from using some services (simple db) by them hiding it. Yes, new accounts can't use certain services (ec2 classic). Yes, some old features cost more than newer better features (rrs s3).

But I wasn't able to point to any AWS service that had been shut down.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#172

Post by mooreds »

mcbain wrote: post #141
outworlder wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Other things like a lack of presence in China could be challenging in the future as well. Well, to be fair, NONE of the big clouds have any presence in China. They are "in China" in name only. For instance, 'AWS' China is not AWS, you will be dealing with Sinnet for Beijing or whoever else operates the Ningxia region. The underlying software is a baby version which doesn't have anywhere near the same amount of feat…

I’m not sure what you are angling at here. The China regions might not have all the AWS services present, and they have some extra restrictions, but they aren’t some kind of clones of AWS software. Unless I’m missing something, they are the same versions of what runs in the other regions.

Limited versions.

No experience with AWS China, but I taught a class to some folks who used one of the restricted AWS regions and the services and features were limited when compared to normal aws regions, according to the students.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#173

Post by untog »

masonicb00m wrote: post #144
Someone wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t call that “completely broken”. You can argue it took too long, or that having to give that advice for the reason given is stupid, or that the customer didn’t want to get that advice, but in the example the customer managed to get through to customer support and got clear, actionable advice. I frequently read worse on HN about Google, where even reaching tech support can be ‘challenging”, and Apple, where a…

I have interacted with Apple’s app reviewers for years and never experienced what you’re describing.

It really isn't difficult to search online for stories of people struggling with Apple app reviewers. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#174

Post by realusername »

lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

I've created an account to try Azure last weekend, it took me 2 hours to sign-up due to issues in the registration on their end, and then once it finally worked, I copied an example from their documentation. 5 minutes after, I received an email that I was banned for "security reasons", so yeah if they can't even handle a sign-up properly, I wonder how they want to reach the top spot of the cloud market, I'll for sure try to avoid Azure in the future for any company I go.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#175

Post by sandGorgon »

richardknop wrote: post #169
sandGorgon wrote: post #156

Azure's UX is terrible. They have this weird sliding, Metro UI that takes a lot of learning to figure out. Every startup that I have talked to has hated using Azure. Even the pricing is so hard to figure out. There is some weird intermediate conversion when looking up the price for managed databases. Microsoft is known to throw brilliant discounts into bundling cloud along with its other Office stuff. Not sure if the…

I agree on the UI part, it is quite horrendous. But any major enterprise organisation should be / probably is using some sort of automation tool such as Terraform or something similar. You just don't go and click around in the UI to set up your stuff manually, that's not how big projects in enterprise work (all cloud stuff is automated without depending on UI) so bad UI is a con but it's less important that other mor…

ha ha - fair enough. Pretty much justifies Hashicorp's valuation ;)

But here's some stuff that's really missing. In Google's dashboard (and their API), you can add ssh keys after creation of an instance. Its a fairly basic functionality made possible by the "accounts daemon" (which is opensource https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/compute-image-package...)

Azure doesnt have this, etc.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#176

Post by ldiracdelta »

matt4077 wrote: post #113
lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

> every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated Indeed! Just ~~~last month~~~ 62 months ago they shut down Reader. (I see that you're hedging with the reference to Maps. But I'd love if this time, we wouldn't make a single event a 10-year talking point)

Google Reader still hurts.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#177

Post by Dylan16807 »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #115
Dylan16807 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that stuff isn't part of Google Cloud Platform . But trust in the stability of products can't be siloed that easily.

With different communication that's harder to misunderstand, it would have been possible for Google to get a much better trust and expectations outcome from exactly the same substantive price changes (at least for GAE and GCP if not Maps). I think we're mostly or entirely agreeing?

The cloud service price changes maybe. But I'm more focused on things like maps, and the services they shut down.

They can make statements about which things have promises and which don't, but it still causes worry until there's a really good track record.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#178

Post by fro0116 »

fludlight wrote: post #104
matchagaucho wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inability to connect with a real human when escalating Google Cloud issues seems to be recurring theme on HN.

About seven or eight years ago, I tried to migrate my small employer to Microsoft cloud Exchange (email). I forget what they were calling it back then. We were an Outlook shop so MS seemed like the logical choice. I spent a few days setting everything up and testing it. I flipped the switch and...silence. No incoming email for a few hours in the middle of a Friday night. CEO calls me at 2am asking why our prospective…

You still can't actually change your billing country in Office 365 without starting over with a new account. Even support can't do it.

https://office365.uservoice.com/forums/273493-office-365-adm...

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#179

Post by theevilsharpie »

matchagaucho wrote: post #38
lalos wrote: post #8

Microsoft will reap the rewards of supporting XP and Office for decades, that wins enterprise trust & goodwill, and clients will expect that from Azure. On the other hand, every month we have a new product/service of Google being deprecated (officially or by raising prices). Even if it's technically better, the most sane business decision from enterprise would be to bet on Microsoft for support reasons. Microsoft tal…

The inability to connect with a real human when escalating Google Cloud issues seems to be recurring theme on HN.

I've gotten a prompt response from Google Cloud every time I've filed a support request. Then again, my company pays for a support contract with an SLA.

Re: Google May Have to Get Used to Third Place in the Cloud

#180

Post by masonicb00m »

untog wrote: post #173
masonicb00m wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have interacted with Apple’s app reviewers for years and never experienced what you’re describing.

It really isn't difficult to search online for stories of people struggling with Apple app reviewers. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

There are people who have a bad experience and they complain about it on the internet. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just adding the opposite data point.
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