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Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

theguardian.com

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Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#171

Post by cies »

acchow wrote: post #132
cies wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a many clear reasons to avoid/reduce any processed fat (oils, butter, etc). It is not part of what primates ate, so good chance we're not well adapted to it. It is too calorie dense. It blocks insulin. It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common). It often comes with cholesterol. > Doesn't seem consistent with your logic of less refined is better. That's why I con…

How does fat block insulin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRZduVxlP_U

Here you go. I hope it helps someone, because I took a bit karmic penalty on HN spreading what I think is proven truth. (still worth it for me)

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#172

Post by edanm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #162
edanm wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the Keto people are correct, mainstream nutrition science was a key contributor to American obesity crisis and resulted in countless premature deaths and major suffering over the last few decades. I am kind of under the impression that this is generally accepted, at least partially, by pretty much everyone these days, not just Keto people. As in, the move to remove fats entirely and replace them with carbs is co…

> As in, the move to remove fats entirely and replace them with carbs is considered today to have been a bad idea The move to reduce fats may or may not have been backed by “mainstream nutrition science”, but replacing them with carbs never was.

I'm not sure if replace is correct or not.

But eating carbs was certainly emphasized, eg search Google for food pyramids from the 1970s, their "eat most"categories are usually vegetables and carbs.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#173

Post by cies »

barry-cotter wrote: post #116
cies wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a many clear reasons to avoid/reduce any processed fat (oils, butter, etc). It is not part of what primates ate, so good chance we're not well adapted to it. It is too calorie dense. It blocks insulin. It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common). It often comes with cholesterol. > Doesn't seem consistent with your logic of less refined is better. That's why I con…

> It is not part of what primates ate, so good chance we're not well adapted to it. It’s animal fat. It gets broken down into glycerides. > It is too calorie dense. If you need fewer calories eat less. > It blocks insulin. Insulin is part of glucose metabolism. Dietary fat does not effect it. > It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common). Untrue. If you have a calorie…

> If you need fewer calories eat less.

It's about the other nutrients that come with the calories. If you eat cal dense foods you will not consume enough (micro/phyto) nutrients. Think lettuce/fruit vs oil/butter. Throw 2500 kcal of each group into cronometer.com and see for your self.

> It blocks insulin.

On the cell, so cell become insulin resistant:

> It blocks insulin.

https://youtu.be/fRZduVxlP_U

> > It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common).

> Untrue. If you have a calorie deficit you’ll lose weight, a surplus you’ll gain it. Whether the energy comes from fats or carbs is irrelevant.

True, but I'm talking about having a surplus. In that case very little carbs can be turned into body fat, while consumed fat is easily turned into body fat.

> Serum cholesterol and dietary cholesterol are unrelated.

Some studies may show that, but many other do not. Looking at the methods they use it is clear to me which studies to trust...

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#174

Post by cies »

barry-cotter wrote: post #116
cies wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a many clear reasons to avoid/reduce any processed fat (oils, butter, etc). It is not part of what primates ate, so good chance we're not well adapted to it. It is too calorie dense. It blocks insulin. It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common). It often comes with cholesterol. > Doesn't seem consistent with your logic of less refined is better. That's why I con…

> It is not part of what primates ate, so good chance we're not well adapted to it. It’s animal fat. It gets broken down into glycerides. > It is too calorie dense. If you need fewer calories eat less. > It blocks insulin. Insulin is part of glucose metabolism. Dietary fat does not effect it. > It becomes fat (carbs barely become fat), especially when combined with carbs (as is common). Untrue. If you have a calorie…

> It’s animal fat. It gets broken down into glycerides.

How does that make it healthy?

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#175

Post by cies »

firmgently wrote: post #164
cies wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Juicing, cooking, tofu making is minimally pocessed and generally accepted in WFPB circles. I't the point where you refine something (oil from seeds, sugar from beets) where it is against the protocol. > Seems a bit of a misery diet to me. I was not trying to make you happy. I stated it has a lot of science on it's side. There are some great cooking resources on how to make it taste/look/whatever great. Wanna know mo…

It seems weird to suggest that tofu is less processed than butter. I suppose if you're buying the most high-end expensive tofu it might be a bit better but from what I know of how it's made I don't find it very appealing. I'd say it's a lot easier to make butter in your kitchen than it is tofu. There's a really good book about the food industry called "Eat Your Heart Out" by Felicity Lawrence. I already thought tofu…

Given that soy is the raw material you are "just given"

You need a cow in your kitchen to make butter!

Tofu got some haters. But as far as I know, it is bad for health (if not contaminated with pollutants).

You talk about "appealing" and "off putting". I try to keep the discussion on healthy vs not.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#176

Post by tim333 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #109
jschwartzi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've hiked with people on low-salt diets and they've never failed to get a hyponatremia headache that gets better when they drink some electrolyte(salt). Frankly it doesn't make any sense to me to take an intervention that's good for high blood pressure and unilaterally try to apply it to perfectly healthy people. They did that with fat too and look where we are.

Sodium causes high blood pressure. Electrolyte drinks don't contain sodium but magnesium (and some other salts) if i remember correctly.

It's more complicated than that, eg there's a study here where the high sodium folk had lower pressure https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317099.php and on the NHS known causes of high blood pressure list there are about 20 things https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/high-blood-pressure-hypertensi...

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#177

Post by cies »

bodas wrote: post #94
cies wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Juicing, cooking, tofu making is minimally pocessed and generally accepted in WFPB circles. I't the point where you refine something (oil from seeds, sugar from beets) where it is against the protocol. > Seems a bit of a misery diet to me. I was not trying to make you happy. I stated it has a lot of science on it's side. There are some great cooking resources on how to make it taste/look/whatever great. Wanna know mo…

Surely milk is good for you, whereas American-style cheese is perhaps better avoided. It seems somewhat misguided to knock out whole food groups like that.

Source for milk begin healthy? As the evidence of the contrary is mounting up to a stack that can rival smoking.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#178

Post by cies »

firmgently wrote: post #165
cfuen71 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nutrition is a pseudo-science.

I think the problem with it (as with a lot of science) is that control is very difficult. The more you want a controlled experiment, the more abstract and unrealistic you have to be. Eg. (completely made-up illustration) eggs might be good for you if you eat a lot of tomatoes, bad for you if you don't eat a lot of tomatoes, better if you eat tomatoes a couple of hours before the eggs rather than afterwards. Maybe if…

Well said. This is exactly the problem with nutrition science. Just makes it a bit hard, but not at all impossible.

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#179

Post by cies »

dogma1138 wrote: post #82
cies wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All primates eat high carb. They are not fat. It is fat that blocks insulin on yr cells. No (or little) fat and you can absorb your carbs as nature intended. > Fats are not inherently bad for you, doesn’t matter if they are plant based or not. I agree. It is the refined fats that are bad.

It’s not really not true, apes have very different diets e.g. Gorillas are folivore and mostly consume leaves they can actually digest cellulose (they ferment it which is why they have a huge belly as their colon is huge), while chimps are omnivores that actually eat meat and hunt colobus monkeys, as well as consume eggs, insects, birds, nuts and honey. Also the human genetic and epigenetic landscape is utterly diffe…

https://seaworld.org/animal-info/animal-infobooks/gorilla/di...

I read "Western lowland gorilla (Gorilla gorilla gorilla): This subspecies consumes parts of at least 97 plant species. About 67% of their diet is fruit, 17% is leaves, seeds and stems and 3% is termites and caterpillars."

Another type of gorilla eats more/mostly leafs.

Still gorilla eat HCLF. I'm not saying eat only leafs. I'm saying other primates eat fruit-leaves-bugs mostly (yes some chimps hunt, but given enough fruit they are not so much compelled to). And we have a quite similar GI tract. Not the same, but much more similar than comparing to cats or cows.

We are not made for processed food. We are made for HCLF. We are quite similar to other primates GI-tract wise. What do you not agree with?

Re: Salt not as damaging to health as previously thought, says study

#180

Post by cies »

xzel wrote: post #117
cies wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All primates eat high carb. They are not fat. It is fat that blocks insulin on yr cells. No (or little) fat and you can absorb your carbs as nature intended. > Fats are not inherently bad for you, doesn’t matter if they are plant based or not. I agree. It is the refined fats that are bad.

This is just plain categorically wrong. All primates DO NOT eat high carb diets. Its not both just an over generalization because each species of primate have different diets (as well as regional diets) but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things. See dogma1138's child post to this parent as well as his other responses to cies other posts in this thread. No offense cies but your posts here reek of…

> but many of them will eat nuts, meat, berries and other things.

Eating some "nuts, meat" does not make it HFLC. Do you know what consitutes HCLF? Well name me one type of primate that does not eat HCLF in the wild and you may correct me. But so far you have not.

> No offense cies but your posts here reek of soccer-mom-esque health blog level of basic research and espousing of ideas as facts.

No offense taken. We're just discussing here. Please provide evidence for your claim there is a not-HCLF (thus HFLC) type of ape in some location. I will fix my beliefs with proper evidence (I just could not find it).

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