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Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

citylab.com

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Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#171

Post by mayniac »

jon-wood wrote: post #167
prostoalex wrote: post #34

> such as L.A. and Denver, are watching transit ridership decline across the board, in part because investment in buses has trailed so far behind the commitment to trains That's not completely true for LA (and for the record, train ridership in LA is on decline as well, while the population is growing). Here's the actual reason http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-metro-homeless-2018... "People looking for warm,…

This and the replies honestly make me think there are far deeper problems than public transit in play here. In the UK I’ve never in my life seen someone defacate in public, or encountered the result. The worst I usually encounter on public transport is someone who smells bad, or is a bit weird, and the very worst drunk passengers throwing up on late night trains.

>In the UK I’ve never in my life seen someone defacate in public

Funnily enough, this happened last weekend at a friend's housewarming. That said it was in Clapham so it wasn't entirely surprising.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#172

Post by mayniac »

Dwolb wrote: post #3

I love the bus because it runs express from my Chicago neighborhood directly into the loop. I get on, play with my phone, and get off 25 minutes later. I don't have to fight traffic driving myself and I can multi-task if I choose. The problem comes when trying to take the bus to any other part of the city. It's slow, stops at every block, and is unpredictable when it arrives. It's a mode of transport that supports ev…

>It's slow, stops at every block, and is unpredictable when it arrives. It's a mode of transport that supports everyone and that inherently makes it less useful to the individual.

I wouldn't say that it's inherently less useful to the individual.

In lots of the UK we have dedicated bus lanes. Usually there's some leeway over who can use them, but it's often just buses/taxis/cyclists/motorbikes. They're often only restricted during peak hours, and there's cameras set up which will send fines to drivers who misuse the lanes.

This works fantastically because it actually makes the bus faster, or a similar speed, to driving. Therefore people use it more, which puts less cars on the roads, which makes every form of transport faster for everyone.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#173

Post by ciguy »

photojosh wrote: post #122
paulgerhardt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citylab's push here is in response to South American cities doing exactly that with great success[1]. Initially developed in Curitaba, follow on initiatives in Bogota have been very popular[2]. Basically, treat the bus like a metro. Give them their own lane. Make sure the platform is level with pickup. And you've got a massively cost down subway system. For an inspiring documentary you should check this[3] video out.…

I experienced the bus rapid transit in Quito, Ecuador as a kid. [0] It was superb. The stations are enclosed with payment as you enter. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Quito

Don't know what it was like years ago, but these days it's a mess and universally hated by Quito residents. The Trolley bus is dirty, crowded and a haven for pickpockets and thugs. The schedule is completely irregular now and it often stops running early for no reason.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#174

Post by test1235 »

komali2 wrote: post #61
stevehawk wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one's going to publicly agree with you, but they all do.

Woah, is this a reverse no true Scotsman? What fallacy is this? Just to instantly dismember your argument, which hinges on the word "they all," I'll put my hand up as a "I'd ride next to homeless every day if it saves me transit money."

No you wouldn't. When people say 'homeless', they don't care about the residential state of the individual, but the physical state. I couldn't care less if a fellow rider is homeless as long as they don't stink and are not rude or violent. I don't even care if they're drunk as long as they don't interact with me.

I take the bus to work everyday here in UK and besides some people squashing too close to me when they sit down (which is more to do with the size of the seats, to be fair), it's perfectly fine.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#175

Post by Firadeoclus »

stevejb wrote: post #91
peterwwillis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always rain gear... But I'm already working on it, actually. Rentable covered trikes and quadricycles with electric motors and storage. Slim enough to fit two to three units per road lane. Capable of multiple trips across town up steep hills before needing to be recharged, and remaining light enough to pedal (the default mode being lightly assisted power). Tow trailers and rear sidecars are an option, too.

It seems like this approach is a slow re-invention of the car.

Which is a sensible thing to do if the design parameters for transport that is limited to an urban region are significantly different from that of the typical car.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#176

Post by icc97 »

nordsieck wrote: post #135
cozzyd wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but if the bus is faster, more people will take the bus and so you will add more buses. In places like Quito with dedicated busways, there are buses basically non-stop. Buses can follow one another better than trains too because you don't have the signal system reducing headways.

For the record I'm a huge fan of busses and highly skeptical of trains. I'm sure that there are some places in the world where the Mayor's statement is true. Those places are rare. In a downtown corridor during rush hour? Sure - I could totally see a lane full of just busses. However, most dedicated bus lanes won't be that busy. This isn't to say that there aren't good reasons for dedicated lanes - just that the reas…

> I'm sure that there are some places in the world where the Mayor's statement is true.

In Europe this is predominantly true (maybe not the UK outside London). There's still massive traffic jam problems but buses certainly during rush hour are full and special lanes are provided for them.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#177

Post by icc97 »

I'm of the opinion that buses are the best candidate for the first mode of road transport that can eliminate road deaths for passengers.

They're driven by professional drivers who don't drink, have strict rules about the amount of rest, don't speed and typically (far more than amateurs) drive in a predictable sensible manner.

Certainly in Belgium it's down to single figures per year. The crashes that do occur are usually caused by amateur drivers in cars, the driver falling unconscious or something like a tire blowout.

I think passive neural networks can be trained to take over if the driver becomes unwell (this was one of Musk's claims for the Autopilot in the Tesla Semi) and I think they can be trained to handle the situation of a tire blowout better than a human.

The final issue is amateur drivers. Not much can be done about them until we reach level 4 automation.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#178

Post by hycaria »

Endama wrote: post #5

I suspect the uncomfortable truth behind a lot of the problems regarding public transit isn't the transit itself, but the passengers. If you had the choice of riding a public bus with a large collection of the public or paying a few bucks and selecting a preferred subset of the ridership (e.g. chariot in SF, uber, lyft, etc.) I think most will choose the non-bus option to feel comfortable during their ride. I'm not s…

In Paris, night busses have bouncers. (At least the one I used to take)

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#179

Post by icc97 »

vilmosi wrote: post #99
Reason077 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in London, bus ridership has also been in decline for a few years now. But it's pretty clear the reasons are: 1) the rise of Uber and friends, 2) improvements to the Tube and Rail networks (new trains, better service frequency, longer operating hours, etc), and 3) the increase in popularity of cycling. Yes, sometimes there are weird people on the bus who might make you feel uncomfortable. Yes, sometimes the bus…

Honestly, I don't think London buses have the same problems as US buses.

Agreed, London buses are in a much better state than American in general. But then you should be comparing them with NY.

The main issue of London buses is that they can be slower over long distances.

But over shorter distances, you are normally less crammed in, have a view with sunlight rather than tunnels, don't have to go all the way down to the tube and back up.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#180

Post by emj »

pgtan wrote: post #169
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #9

The bus system has to make pretty aggressive tradeoffs in order to be useful to commuters. You can't make it stop at every block in order to make it take less walking to get to the bus stop. Similarly, you can't have parallel lines a block apart. You have to limit the service area so that you can afford to run busses every 5-10 minutes. And you'll want to improve streets so that busses can run down the center and pic…

> You can't make it stop at every block a solution for this is kind of "stop on demand" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshrutka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_taxi

This does not work if you want to speed up routes in rush hour, because people will demand stops at every block. Usually people are not alturistic enough to get off in bulk if they have the option to stop everywhere. Busses work great even in low density environment if you build infrastructure that is good for busses. Bicycles + buss makes it posible to serve quite large areas fast and simple.
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