Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

citylab.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 248 posts

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#31

Post by peterwwillis »

dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go.

Welcome to planet earth. It doesn't revolve around you.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#32

Post by jdavis703 »

rdl wrote: post #29

The challenge here is riding the bus is inferior in convenience and comfort, fundamentally, vs other options. Unless price (likely by eliminating any subsidies for other methods; today even a $0 bus fare would still not be enough) or other features (bypassing traffic) make up for it, why would a rational person take the bus? There are probably places on the margin where buses are more acceptable right now (in a downt…

> Private bus networks with access limited to certain people (employees of companies or groups of companies, universities, etc) seem to work ok; what generally doesn’t seem to work are public buses.

This sounds like an argument for restricting transit access to the most privileged members of society. The real reason private buses are successful is because they have a limited amount of stops, it's more like riding a train than a local bus that stops at every block. If anything cities should be investing way more in BRT, as the private sector has proven that high quality buses can work.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#33

Post by dmitrygr »

peterwwillis wrote: post #31
dmitrygr wrote: post #22

I keep hearing a lot of anti-car sentiment on HN, and a lot of claims that cities with good public transit are wonderful. Amsterdam is often cited as an example. So I decided to find out for myself. I went there. It convinced me more than ever that I will always prefer car/uber/lyft to public transit. Wait, hear me out. Yes, buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at whe…

> buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Welcome to planet earth. It doesn't revolve around you.

Nor you. We each get a vote. And mine is for cars.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#34

Post by prostoalex »

> such as L.A. and Denver, are watching transit ridership decline across the board, in part because investment in buses has trailed so far behind the commitment to trains

That's not completely true for LA (and for the record, train ridership in LA is on decline as well, while the population is growing).

Here's the actual reason http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-metro-homeless-2018...

"People looking for warm, dry places to sleep have barricaded themselves inside emergency exit stairwells in stations, leaving behind trash and human waste. Elevator doors coated in urine have stuck shut. Mentally ill and high passengers have assaulted bus drivers and other riders."

"More than 1 in 5 current passengers has been harassed on the train. In a 2016 survey, 29% of former riders told Metro they stopped taking transit because they felt unsafe."

"Sim said she saw a man pull down his pants, squat over the edge of a platform and defecate onto the train tracks at Union Station. She said she has sat in urine on the subway, “hopscotched through peoples’ feces” on sidewalks, and endured verbal and sexual harassment on the train."

"In one more serious case, Loew said, LAPD officers used a Taser on a man who was brandishing a knife and threatening passengers."

"He kept riding, until he sat down one morning on a seat that was wet and hot with urine. With no change of clothes on hand, he wore the urine-soaked pants to work. Then he started driving to work again."

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#35

Post by peterwwillis »

dmitrygr wrote: post #33
peterwwillis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> buses and bikes were wonderful. But, they do not stop at my door, and they do not stop at where I want to go. Welcome to planet earth. It doesn't revolve around you.

Nor you. We each get a vote. And mine is for cars.

Also, what about bicycles does not allow them to go to your door or where you want to go?

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#36

Post by paulgerhardt »

stefan_ wrote: post #11
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #9

The bus system has to make pretty aggressive tradeoffs in order to be useful to commuters. You can't make it stop at every block in order to make it take less walking to get to the bus stop. Similarly, you can't have parallel lines a block apart. You have to limit the service area so that you can afford to run busses every 5-10 minutes. And you'll want to improve streets so that busses can run down the center and pic…

That's exactly the problem, buses can never match that. They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them.

Citylab's push here is in response to South American cities doing exactly that with great success[1]. Initially developed in Curitaba, follow on initiatives in Bogota have been very popular[2]. Basically, treat the bus like a metro. Give them their own lane. Make sure the platform is level with pickup. And you've got a massively cost down subway system. For an inspiring documentary you should check this[3] video out.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/may/26/curitiba-braz...

[2] http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/mar/21/bogotas-bus-rapid-trans...

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3YjeARuilI

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#39

Post by s2g »

SilasX wrote: post #17
stefan_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly the problem, buses can never match that. They can't have too short a route or too fast an interval, it doesn't work when you have huge variance due to personal cars, lights etc. impeding them.

They can do bus-only lanes though. Ideally, also toll the roads high enough so that the traffic is never backed up. (And, even more ideally, have no toll when when the road is below capacity.)

Force the middle class out of the city, give them shitty transit options, then tax the hell out of them when they decide to drive.

Wonderful.

Re: Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever

#40

Post by rdl »

jdavis703 wrote: post #32
rdl wrote: post #29

The challenge here is riding the bus is inferior in convenience and comfort, fundamentally, vs other options. Unless price (likely by eliminating any subsidies for other methods; today even a $0 bus fare would still not be enough) or other features (bypassing traffic) make up for it, why would a rational person take the bus? There are probably places on the margin where buses are more acceptable right now (in a downt…

> Private bus networks with access limited to certain people (employees of companies or groups of companies, universities, etc) seem to work ok; what generally doesn’t seem to work are public buses. This sounds like an argument for restricting transit access to the most privileged members of society. The real reason private buses are successful is because they have a limited amount of stops, it's more like riding a t…

The public “express buses” seem to have most of the same problems. This is possibly due to inflexibility in how/where they are deployed, or riders, or other factors.
Post reply on HN