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The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

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Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#171

Post by pmoriarty »

downandout wrote: post #80
laythea wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole tracking thing should be outlawed in my opinion. It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. In a world where that is clearly not ok, then why is it that this kind of thing (tracking) is deemed ok? What we need is something that does to our online privacy, what curtains did for peoples real…

It's like saying that because windows are transparent, it is ok to stare into people's living rooms. It's not - irrespective of transparency or lack of curtains. Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. These websites belong to private entities. So it’s more like saying that because you voluntarily walked into my store, it’s ok for me to observe your behavior while yo…

"When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy."

So you'd have no problem with a restaurant owner bugging all their tables and listening in on their customers' conversations?

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#172

Post by flukus »

pgeorgi wrote: post #56
wang_li wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more egregious way Google collects data on internet users is through their hosted libraries service. You visit some completely unaffiliated site which happens to use jquery or some other library and instead of hosting it themselves they have a script tag with a src=ajax.googleapis.com/...

For that, see https://developers.google.com/speed/libraries/terms That stuff is kept separate from all account data (like with Google DNS[0] and fonts[1], too): no common cookies, "unauthenticated" (ie. no cross-referencing with Google accounts), logs retain no referrers [0] https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy [1] https://developers.google.com/fonts/faq#what_does_using_the_...

They don't use this data currently. It's a hedge against the day when firefox and safari start including something like uBlock by default.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#173

Post by TangoTrotFox »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #144
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Apple is also one of the participants in the NSA's PRISM [1] domestic surveillance program. Their participation shows at least some disregard for the privacy of their customers in and of itself, but more tellingly it's also indicative of the NSA's appreciation for the amount and quality of unique and identifiable data that Apple has or can readily obtain on their users. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PR…

> Their participation shows at least some disregard for the privacy of their customers in and of itself Why? Apple is legally required to hand over the court ordered data whether or not they participate in the FBI's data integration program. By implementing a proper data integration system, Apple can standardize audits and alerts and make sure the FBI gets only what is required and not somebody else's data by acciden…

I'd recommend checking out the article and other reading on PRISM. PRISM is operated by the NSA and involves egregious breaches of personal privacy including bulk collection of loosely targeted data, warrantless data retrieval in some instances, the collection and use of "inadvertently collected data" and more. This entire period of extreme surveillance and secret courts, which are in effect kangaroo courts, will likely be looked at in the history books similar to how you look at things like the Stasi. Keep in mind that the Stasi was founded in 1950 and prosecutions only began once East Germany fell, some 40 years later.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#174

Post by cpeterso »

cpeterso wrote: post #95
redm wrote: post #3

Just some of the ways Google collects data [1]: Google Search, Google Fiber, Google Recaptcha, Google Translate, Google Adsense, Google Chrome (Safe Browsing checks etc.), Google DNS (8.8.4.4 etc.), Google Mail, Android Integrations, Google GSuite (Sheets, Docs, etc.), Google Drive, Google Analytics, Google AMP, YouTube So on and so forth. Of course, Google keeps most of this data to themselves to improve products an…

And the Google Fonts CDN.

Correction: I see now that no cookies are sent with Google Fonts CDN requests:

https://developers.google.com/fonts/faq#what_does_using_the_...

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#175

Post by vatueil »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #57
UncleMeat wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human reviewers are not fabulous at detecting make are sight unseen. This is also wildly unscalable.

Extensions do not come in at the volume of YouTube videos. Not only is the scale orders of magnitude smaller: But there's little to gain from an endless supply of browser extensions. Unreviewed browser extensions should not be permitted, full stop. Microsoft has (finally) figured this out: There's a few dozen Edge extensions which Microsoft has vetted, and that's it. Additionally, scrutiny for extensions can be filte…

> Extensions do not come in at the volume of YouTube videos.

Unfortunately, reviewers who can vet extensions for malicious code also come in lesser volume than reviewers who can watch YouTube videos.

> But there's little to gain from an endless supply of browser extensions.

Debatable. Every move by Mozilla and Google in the past to restrict add-ons has been met by criticism from developers. I doubt many here would share the love for the Windows Store.

> Microsoft has (finally) figured this out: There's a few dozen Edge extensions which Microsoft has vetted, and that's it.

I'm sure Microsoft's gatekeeping has kept many shoddy extensions out of the store, but the fact that Microsoft introduced support for Edge extensions only recently compared to Firefox and Chrome and that Edge has relatively low marketshare probably also factor into the low number of extensions available.

> In my given example, the issue is the ability to read and modify content on all websites you view: This permission should only be granted after extreme scrutiny, whereas an extension which can only access a single domain and does a simple thing needs only a cursory glance.

The add-ons I use that can be restricted to a limited number of domains already do so, but most of the add-ons I use must be able to access any given site in order to function: password managers, tab organizers, etc.

It's true the permission is powerful, but if you're going to ask for "extreme" vetting of extensions which use it you might as well ask for extreme vetting of all extensions since legitimate use cases are not exactly a small category.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#176

Post by lucideer »

lallysingh wrote: post #76
kop316 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll copy an earlier post of what I found: On Android, I noted before that when I turned on and off location services, the GPS lock was near instantaneous (i.e. when I turned on location, Google Maps located me with GPS precision immediately. There could be other ways of how this happens, it was noted in another post of mine, but that had still had me a bit suspicious. I replaced Google Play Services with microG rece…

By tracking, do you mean the phone keeping track of its own location, or it sending location data back to Google? Google maintains a database of wifi networks and their locations (I don't know the ways this data is acquired) to help triangulate the position: https://www.quora.com/How-does-android-use-WiFi-to-get-your-...

> I don't know the ways this data is acquired

It's been acquired from a range of sources. Most notably, Google Streetview cars collected a very large initial data set. Once you have that, it's quite easy to maintain an up-to-date dataset by verifying new routers picked up against nearby known routers (as well as verifying against GPS sensor data obviously).

This tech is not only in Android phones, but also every Chrome browser, so that's a lot of incoming data. The API used to be used by iOS and Safari (before Apple Maps) and Mozilla Firefox (before they launched their own WiFi and cell network database; theirs is released under CC0 though so I'm sure Google use their data too).

There are also other competitors to Google, Apple, Mozilla here with their own databases, like Skyhook, Navizon, AlterGeo.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#177

Post by lucideer »

pgeorgi wrote: post #133
lucideer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone mentioned anything about GPS until now. We're talking about Google recording your location, which can be inferred from a number of sources, including GPS, WiPS/WFPS, IP, and others. WiPS/WFPS is the most commonly used by Google.

The great-grand-poster: "Android even lets you turn off AGPS, which collects anonymous location data to update itself. As far as I know, this is not even possible on iOS." AGPS is GPS, assisted but still GPS.

I guess I was unclear: that could probably be reworded to say "I don't think anyone specified GPS"

That ggp prefixed that line on AGPS with "even"; they were asking for citation that Google persistently tracks location, and just used AGPS as one example.

The point being, saying Google allows you to disable GPS is a world away from saying Google allows you to disable location tracking. And I'm not talking about IP geolocation.

I don't even know if they do completely respect your choice to disable GPS (citation needed indeed here), but I do know that they persistently track you via WiPS/WFPS at the very least, if not other methods.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#178

Post by Sylos »

cpeterso wrote: post #174
cpeterso wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Google Fonts CDN.

Correction: I see now that no cookies are sent with Google Fonts CDN requests: https://developers.google.com/fonts/faq#what_does_using_the_...

You don't need Cookies. Your browser requests it from Google's server, which gives them your IP address. And your browser sends what webpage you're currently on as part of the HTTP referrer.

So, if every webpage you visit loads in its fonts from Google's CDN, they have your complete browsing history from that alone.

Other commonly used CDNs of Google: GStatic, JQuery, ajax.googleapis.com

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#179

Post by jacksmith21006 »

saagarjha wrote: post #121
jacksmith21006 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloud is not required with Google. What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? 90+% of Google's services are online. Apple has a substantial hardware business, so I don't see how you are conflating the two.

You can buy an Android phone and never use the cloud if you want just like an iPhone.

The two are actually very similar.

Google services do not matter if you have an Android phone or an iPhone. Suspect there is actually more consumption of Google services on the iPhone then even Android but do not have numbers handy to support.

Re: The Many Ways Google Harvests Data

#180

Post by teaneedz »

downandout wrote: post #110
chongli wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. When you enter someone else’s place of business, you have no expectation of privacy. That's not true at all. When I go to the hardware store to buy a box of nails, I don't have any expectation for the owner to begin following me around for the rest of the day (and in perpetuity thereafter). I also don't expect the hardware store owner to get on the phone with the grocery store owner and ask him what groceries a…

Are you suggesting that reading the newspaper at home grants the publisher the right to peer in through my window? No, nor did I even intimate that. That's your property, not mine. That suggestion is as ridiculous as the one I was trying to refute. But when you enter my property - be it virtual or phyiscal - expect to be observed using whatever technologies and vendors I want that are legal (with a few obvious legal…

What is the name of your business or employee, @downandout? I wish to avoid it.
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