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Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

nytimes.com

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Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#171

Post by [deleted] »

bogomipz wrote: post #129
harryh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college I took: * 1 literature class (shakespeare elective) * 0 philosophy classes * 1 history class (history 101) * 0 art classes * 2 science classes (physics 1 & 2) I don't believe these gave me a wide-ranging perspective on these topics. I think my experience is pretty typical for technical majors. The idea that most students develop this sort of thing in college is pretty clearly a myth.

Did you actually believe at some point that taking 0 philosophy and 0 art classes would give you a wide-ranging perspective on those topics? >"The idea that most students develop this sort of thing in college is pretty clearly a myth." So based on your own anecdotal experience core curriculum contributing to a well-rounded education is a "myth." Also the idea isn't that you immediately "develop this sort of thing in…

[deleted]

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#172

Post by philwelch »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #16

I went to a community college and transferred to a prestigious public university. In my experience, if you find a good community college, the high volume classes tend to be better than they are at a big school. There are usually less than 50 students (vs up to 400), the teachers actually enjoy teaching, and the material is easy enough that the teachers understand it just as well as top tier professors. Honestly, Cali…

Washington seems to have pretty good community colleges, but the best part is that Washington has a program called Running Start where your last two years of high school can be fulfilled by taking classes at a community college. This makes it possible (albeit difficult) to graduate from "high school" with two years of college credits and transfer to a university. Not doing this ranks pretty high on my list of life regrets.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#173

Post by diablerouge »

nradov wrote: post #168
jobowoo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to find this site that compares average income by where students went to college. CSU Stanislaus: $47,000 (early career), $90,300 (mid career) MIT: $81,500 (early career), $147,000 (mid career) Early career is 0-5 years experience. Mid career is 10+ years experience. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors?pag... Obviously, we can't say that prestige of college and income are causal but th…

In order to establish some degree of causality we would have to look only at the population of students accepted to both schools. That way you're starting from a comparable baseline.

Also you'd have to control for major. MIT produces a lot of people working in technical fields with a higher average income. Cal State awards a broader range of degrees.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#174

Post by [deleted] »

skookumchuck wrote: post #161
chrisseaton wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But most of them don't have masters degrees in mathematics, do they? Many of them will have a generic Master of Education degree. The normally accepted education level for teaching a university-level class is a PhD.

You don't need a masters degree in math to teach freshman calculus. I was taught freshman calc by grad students - with no "education" training whatsoever. Perhaps these "masters" of education are learning the wrong things. Freshman calculus just isn't that hard, and isn't much beyond algebra. This "gee math is hard" crap is, well, crap. No PhD is necessary. Hell, I taught it to my kids on the kitchen table, and I hav…

[deleted]

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#175

Post by chrisseaton »

skookumchuck wrote: post #161
chrisseaton wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But most of them don't have masters degrees in mathematics, do they? Many of them will have a generic Master of Education degree. The normally accepted education level for teaching a university-level class is a PhD.

You don't need a masters degree in math to teach freshman calculus. I was taught freshman calc by grad students - with no "education" training whatsoever. Perhaps these "masters" of education are learning the wrong things. Freshman calculus just isn't that hard, and isn't much beyond algebra. This "gee math is hard" crap is, well, crap. No PhD is necessary. Hell, I taught it to my kids on the kitchen table, and I hav…

Do you think someone needs any education at all in a subject to each it? Do you think someone who has never studied calculus should be able to teach it?

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#176

Post by madengr »

jobowoo wrote: post #134
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering what's the opportunity cost that you paid by having Cal State on your CV instead of a top-ranked university. I sometimes see people who went to MIT or Stanford that I feel would not have gotten nearly as far as they have if it were Cal State. How many of your colleagues are from top universities?

I was able to find this site that compares average income by where students went to college. CSU Stanislaus: $47,000 (early career), $90,300 (mid career) MIT: $81,500 (early career), $147,000 (mid career) Early career is 0-5 years experience. Mid career is 10+ years experience. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors?pag... Obviously, we can't say that prestige of college and income are causal but th…

Meh, I’m making more at mid career than the equivalent MIT grad, and I went to a flyover state university. Don’t sweat it. Just get good at what you like to do and the money will come naturally.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#177

Post by harryh »

tnecniv wrote: post #169
harryh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In college I took: * 1 literature class (shakespeare elective) * 0 philosophy classes * 1 history class (history 101) * 0 art classes * 2 science classes (physics 1 & 2) I don't believe these gave me a wide-ranging perspective on these topics. I think my experience is pretty typical for technical majors. The idea that most students develop this sort of thing in college is pretty clearly a myth.

I majored in electrical engineering at a good school, and had to take ~8 humanities and social science credits, so that is surprising to me.

I went to CMU and majored in ECE (minor in CS). In addition to the above I took a humanities concentration in economics which was 3 classes so that's 5 humanities classes total. I think? I graduated in 2000 so I might be forgetting something, but I don't think so.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#178

Post by pkaye »

diablerouge wrote: post #173
nradov wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to establish some degree of causality we would have to look only at the population of students accepted to both schools. That way you're starting from a comparable baseline.

Also you'd have to control for major. MIT produces a lot of people working in technical fields with a higher average income. Cal State awards a broader range of degrees.

Here is one only for computer science. https://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-...

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#179

Post by PrimHelios »

As they should be. Just finishing up my 2 year college and I'm about to transfer to a much larger (and more prestigious) state school for my BS and MS. It's turned out a whole hell of a lot cheaper using a community college than paying $23k for four semesters.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#180

Post by dragonwriter »

skookumchuck wrote: post #114
ams6110 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High schools may have trouble finding teachers who are qualified to teach advanced subjects, also they may not have enough students to really justify a class at that level. Whereas a Community College may have an easier time finding instructors, since there aren't licensing rules or a need to employ the instructor full-time. Also they draw from a wider student population so may not have as much difficulty filling a c…

> High schools may have trouble finding teachers who are qualified to teach advanced subjects One wonders about such teachers who have advanced masters degrees in education. Why are they not qualified to teach freshman college material?

A Masters degree is usually qualification to teach college in the field of the degree (regular faculty in community colleges, lecturers in major universities—though lecturers are somewhat rare).

A masters in education is qualification to teach education classes, not other subjects.

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