Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’ • Hacker News Board

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#171

Post by wavegeek » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #59

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

I remember always getting annoyed at colleagues and Hacker News generally for being technolibertarian fanboys. And now I'm constantly annoyed at the sanctimony and self-indulgence of the "Left," even though I hate granting them that label. Maybe I'm just getting old.

Old saying

If you're young and you don't have left wing views, you have no heart.

If you're old and you still have left wing views, you have no brain.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#172

Post by adventured » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #114

resu_nimda wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never can tell if there really is an influx of insane, insufferable far left crazies, or if people who insist on remaining racist and keeping gays in the closet are mad that nobody is having that anymore. That's because it's entirely a matter of individual perspective and experience. Everyone takes their own tiny viewport onto a region of millions of diverse people and attempts to claim "oh yeah SF/bay area is like…

There may be millions of diverse people and opinions but there is definitely a dominant ideology, it is definitely far-left, and it suppresses all other political viewpoints. This is absolutely blindingly self-evident in SF and if you disagree I wonder if you have actually been there.

It's also entirely unnecessary to guess at this.

We have voting records and financial contributions to campaigns. Both tell the same exact story. San Francisco is as far left as cities get in the US.

The mistake being made by the top level parent, is thinking that there was ever actually a wide-spread libertarian burst. There was not. That was nothing more than a media meme for a few minutes, mostly thanks to Andreessen, Thiel and a few others. SF overall has been extreme left for the last 40 years plus.

Marc Andreessen for one, has entirely disappeared from the public discussion politically. He's a particularly openly avowed libertarian type in terms of beliefs. There's a reason he shut down like he did, it's the same reason Thiel is being evicted from the inner circles of tech. There is no room for mistakes in the current police state of speech that exists in SV. One mistake, stepping out of line with dogma, and you're done. Andreessen wants to stay in Silicon Valley and wants to maintain his VC firm at the top tier, so he shut his mouth to put it simply. Thiel is unwilling to go along with the political & speech requirements of continuing to exist in SV.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#173

Post by anigbrowl » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

dna_polymerase wrote: post #147

wpietri wrote: post #78

> they feel people there are resistant to different social values and political ideologies This is just bizarre to to me. I moved here from the Midwest, which I found stifling. There's a far greater variety of social values and political ideologies (not to mention backgrounds and interests) here than pretty much any place I've lived. The main hostility I see is to intolerance, but that's hardly surprising given SF's…

Paradox of tolerance, huh? Being intolerant towards the 'intolerant' while still claiming to be tolerant? That's exactly the kind of crap that made Thiel and Altman making such strong arguments towards the culture in the valley.

How is this different from animals having both a microbiome and an immune system? I'm guessing you rely heavily on Popper's theories in the lab, so I think you really ought to give this one the time of day rather than dismissing it without actually making an argument for why you don't subscribe to it.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#174

Post by freyir » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #160

freyir wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

> conservative housing policies Rent control is conservative now? All of SF policy is leftist and pro government intervention. I wonder why it fails...

Poor choice of words on my part. I meant "conservative" in terms of NIMBYs' aversion to change and development.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#175

Post by friedman23 » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #153

heurist wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire country has awful city planning, SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems. Conservatives have plenty of issues as well - look at Kansas or Alabama. Don't see those being discussed at a national level, though the politics that drove them into the ground as now steering the federal government.

> SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems Coming in from New York, San Francisco’s lack of attention to its homeless population is self inflicted. It’s also a problem that nobody in the city seems very much to care about.

> It’s also a problem that nobody in the city seems very much to care about

Because all the rich people living in the North West part of the city are completely insulated from it.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#176

Post by frgtpsswrdlame » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

friedman23 wrote: post #158

gameswithgo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what SF is like, so in these discussions I never can tell if there really is an influx of insane, insufferable far left crazies, or if people who insist on remaining racist and keeping gays in the closet are mad that nobody is having that anymore. The latter is what I see in my own circle of humans but I live in Texas. I can say though that I've moved further to the left as I've gotten older, from a li…

> I have no idea what SF is like, so in these discussions I never can tell if there really is an influx of insane, insufferable far left crazies I'm not a Trump supporter by any means but I remember clearly the morning after the election and seeing people walking through the street in SF on their way to work in tears. If that doesn't point to a presence of insane, insufferable far left (or at least leftist) crazies I…

>If that doesn't point to a presence of insane, insufferable far left (or at least leftist) crazies I don't know what does.

I think you're mistaking how extreme their political beliefs are with how extremely devoted to their political beliefs they are. Most of these people aren't 'far left' they're just very, very committed to their center/center-left politics.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#177

Post by refurb » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:05 PM UTC

wz1000 wrote: post #99

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

> The takeover by the proscriptive far-left Americans have a very weird conception of what "far-left" means. Liberal feel good minority appeasement by billion dollar multinational corporations is as far from "far-left" as you can get.

Political views are relative.

I could say that there are no hard-right parties in Europe (with mainstream ideals - I'm ignoring the fascist parties).

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#178

Post by sho » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

wz1000 wrote: post #99

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

> The takeover by the proscriptive far-left Americans have a very weird conception of what "far-left" means. Liberal feel good minority appeasement by billion dollar multinational corporations is as far from "far-left" as you can get.

Interesting, especially since I am not American and I think I have a pretty good idea of what "far-left" means. Care to explain what you think it means?

I use it to describe any political ideology focussed on equality of outcome and legitimacy through elimination of self-judged "oppression", which is IMO as good a definition as any as the communist disasters of the 20th century.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#179

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

SF has been dominated by what passes as the American left (with the neoliberal wing of the Democratic party being the local “conservative” establishment) for several decades.

This has not radically changed recently.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#180

Post by heurist » Sun, Feb 18, 2018, 9:07 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #153

heurist wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire country has awful city planning, SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems. Conservatives have plenty of issues as well - look at Kansas or Alabama. Don't see those being discussed at a national level, though the politics that drove them into the ground as now steering the federal government.

> SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems Coming in from New York, San Francisco’s lack of attention to its homeless population is self inflicted. It’s also a problem that nobody in the city seems very much to care about.

I haven't been to San Francisco in 10ish years or NYC in 5 so I can't compare directly, but Austin, Dallas, San Antonio and Houston all have tons of homeless people as well and they seem to get very little attention.