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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

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Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#151

Post by mrgordon »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #144
mrgordon wrote: post #135

I feel alienated by the awful beliefs and behavior of Peter Thiel and his portfolio companies. Now many people can breathe a sigh of relief that someone who wields billions to support Palantir, Trump, and spurious lawsuits will finally leave us alone.

> will finally leave us alone He’s not even leaving the state. Branding his move as political exodus is marketing for his China-oriented fundraising, a capital source better serviced from Los Angeles than San Francisco.

Yeah I was referring to him leaving Silicon Valley / SF as the headline mentions but I agree it’s a self serving move and won’t really change his agenda much. He did buy citizenship in New Zealand so he can flee there if he messes our country up too much.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#152

Post by jacques_chester »

Sniffnoy wrote: post #23
jacques_chester wrote: post #16

The thing is, if you like private property and private contract, this is what can happen to you. If you think any company is within its rights to police speech, then you agree that it's fine for Google to exclude conservative or libertarian speech. Nobody owes you space for your views. Your place, your rules. Their place, their rules. That's the deal.

I think you're drawing a false binary choice here. There is such a thing as "thick libertarianism", for instance. There's nothing inconsistent with the view that sure one is within one's rights to do such a thing but that it is still bad , and that one might, to the extent that one can within one's own rights, take measures to discourage such a thing rather than just accepting it as "Well it's within their rights so…

> There's nothing inconsistent with the view that sure one is within one's rights to do such a thing but that it is still bad, and that one might, to the extent that one can within one's own rights, take measures to discourage such a thing rather than just accepting it as "Well it's within their rights so it must be OK".

Sure, but ultimately, if the other party to the discussion refuses to agree, you need a decision rule.

If your views are largely about that decision rule then you look silly for not accepting it.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#153

Post by JumpCrisscross »

heurist wrote: post #130
freyir wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

The entire country has awful city planning, SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems. Conservatives have plenty of issues as well - look at Kansas or Alabama. Don't see those being discussed at a national level, though the politics that drove them into the ground as now steering the federal government.

> SF just happens to be a highly visible example with some unique problems

Coming in from New York, San Francisco’s lack of attention to its homeless population is self inflicted. It’s also a problem that nobody in the city seems very much to care about.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#154

Post by pfarnsworth »

freyir wrote: post #82
andrewjl wrote: post #41

I find the recent uptick in progressivism in SV refreshing, and sorely needed. Then again, I've lived my entire life in liberal enclaves and do not personally identify with conservative / "family values" viewpoints.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

Over 300 million dollars per year is spent on homeless in SF, and the result of that money is still people shitting on Market street with no fears. I don't understand why there isn't someone going over that budget and ensuring that the money is properly spent instead of lining political allies with money.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#155

Post by jstewartmobile »

grzm wrote: post #145
jstewartmobile wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more a case of everyone being so entrenched in ideological warfare that we've moved from discussion to brand management--downvoting wrongthink rather than engaging with it.

I think we share some similar concerns. I’m trying to focus on what can be done to improve the situation, rather than just noting it. Rather than complaining about wrongthink, what can you do to move the needle in a constructive way? No one likes being accused of collaborating with the Brave New World, and are unlikely to think they actually are doing so: rare enough is real-world self-realization displayed in Mitche…

Why am I not surprised that such a classy response came from a Clojurist?

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#156

Post by betenoire »

axau wrote: post #42
throwaway5752 wrote: post #10

What is it that Peter Thiel said previously about women voting? What did he do to Gawker?

Does it matter? Do you think we should blacklist people if they allegedly hold or have at some point allegedly held unfashionable opinions? What a horrible precedent.

Well, it kinda delegitimizes their complaint about other peoples' thoughts and ideas.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#157

Post by mrgordon »

api wrote: post #125
FeepingCreature wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> among the least diverse industries in the world. If you count asians as white... Also gonna want a cite on that. afaik sv hiring is about equal with labor market.

I was thinking more of gender diversity than racial diversity, though the racial diversity of SV is not great. There are loads of female mathematicians, doctors, civil engineers, writers, journalists, etc. so obviously language and math is not beyond women. Programming is just language and math.

Proof that more women (as a percentage) are mathematicians than programmers? I think it’s about equal for many of the same reasons.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#158

Post by friedman23 »

gameswithgo wrote: post #55
sho wrote: post #46

What is crazy about the the situation in SF is that even 5 or so years ago if you asked me what the "echo chamber" there was echoing I would have said libertarianism and some kind of techno-utopianism. The takeover by the proscriptive far-left has been astonishingly rapid, and it is absolutely real. I also know people who have left, and many more who absolutely keep their political and even philosophical views to the…

I have no idea what SF is like, so in these discussions I never can tell if there really is an influx of insane, insufferable far left crazies, or if people who insist on remaining racist and keeping gays in the closet are mad that nobody is having that anymore. The latter is what I see in my own circle of humans but I live in Texas. I can say though that I've moved further to the left as I've gotten older, from a li…

> I have no idea what SF is like, so in these discussions I never can tell if there really is an influx of insane, insufferable far left crazies

I'm not a Trump supporter by any means but I remember clearly the morning after the election and seeing people walking through the street in SF on their way to work in tears.

If that doesn't point to a presence of insane, insufferable far left (or at least leftist) crazies I don't know what does.

It was very difficult not laugh.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#159

Post by jacques_chester »

rhapsodic wrote: post #100
jacques_chester wrote: post #16

The thing is, if you like private property and private contract, this is what can happen to you. If you think any company is within its rights to police speech, then you agree that it's fine for Google to exclude conservative or libertarian speech. Nobody owes you space for your views. Your place, your rules. Their place, their rules. That's the deal.

>The thing is, if you like private property and private contract, this is what can happen to you. If you think any company is within its rights to police speech, then you agree that it's fine for Google to exclude conservative or libertarian speech. Then why do people go on so about the so-called "Hollywood Blacklist" whereby private entities refused to hire people who supported Communism?

Because they didn't like it and it had a chilling effect on a lot of artistic careers.

And so many people feel about current views.

But in both cases, if you are a bog-ordinary conservative or libertarian, it's hard to remain self-consistent and argue that private property and private contract are sacrosanct except when you don't like the outcomes.

Re: Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

#160

Post by friedman23 »

freyir wrote: post #82
andrewjl wrote: post #41

I find the recent uptick in progressivism in SV refreshing, and sorely needed. Then again, I've lived my entire life in liberal enclaves and do not personally identify with conservative / "family values" viewpoints.

San Francisco’s “progressivism” is undermined by how terribly the city operates. Dirty streets, aging infrastructure, crime, homelessness, laissez faire law enforcement, conservative housing policies, and extreme wealth inequality everywhere. If the progressives can’t get their own house in order, good luck selling their vision to the rest of the country.

> conservative housing policies

Rent control is conservative now? All of SF policy is leftist and pro government intervention. I wonder why it fails...

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