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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#171

Post by wyager »

lemagedurage wrote: post #120
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. A more sensible way of dealing wirh the issue would be to use an open source Android version like AOSP or LineageOS, not run proprietary gapps, and replace its functionality with F-Droid, MicroG and Yalp-store. Your location will stay out of Apple's/Google's hands and you ca…

> Apple provides a black box with iOS

And google does it with Google Play Services. All we have to go on is the historical record of the manufacturer, and apple’s is vastly better.

Obviously a high-quality open-source smartphone would be preferable, but I’m not aware of such a thing (Although I’m hopeful that purism’s phone will be good).

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#174

Post by Feniks »

growse wrote: post #25
nvr219 wrote: post #24

If you care about personal privacy and security of your friends and family, you should discourage them from using Android.

Of course, this is meaningless without context. Privacy from who? Security from what? What's the perceived threat we're trying to protect against? Everything is a tradeoff. To absolutely protect your privacy, you must never be seen in public or interact with any other party in any way.

"Privacy from who? Security from what?"

The marketing parasite. I know in the US it has taken over the host so I guess its up to Brussels.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#175

Post by snowpanda »

eps wrote: post #152
eridius wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded. They see user data as a liability and work very hard to collect as little as possible in order to provide the services they do. The idea that Apple is going to discard all of th…

Careful there with Kool Aid.

Agreed, it would be nice to have an actual conversation about the issues in the mobile market right now instead of pointing to one of the 2 major companies, that nobody should really be 100% confident about.

IMO both Google and Apple aren't saints. Apple had a fairly similar headline in 2011[1]. Now watch people here on HN explain why that was completely different. It's a guarantee.

We really should be focusing coming up with ideas on what we can do. My friend for example (and this isn't a perfect solution) but he bought 2 phones, one of these for calling:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41AwGb3pKCL...

(extremely thin in real life)

And then he caries a smartphone for encrypted chat apps etc. He removed a bunch of hardware chips from the smartphone so even if you put a simcard it it doesn't connect anywhere. Also the microphone was removed and some other things. It works great. At first he had it with the simcard still in, but he wanted more privacy. Personally, I would have kept a 4g only simcard or something, it's kind of a trade-off because now he can only chat on wifi.

It's far from perfect, but at least he's trying something.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tr...

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#176

Post by horsecaptin »

growse wrote: post #148
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

> This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majority of their money comes from selling their users' data). Apple has chosen to highlight their commitment to privacy partially because they feel it…

"But this is all just marketing, whereas the reality is that Apple could also be hoovering up location data and you may never know."

It isn't just marketing. This is how the alignment of incentives works. A company's incentives are aligned with the people who pay them. Apple's are aligned with those that buy phones. Google and Facebook's are aligned with those that buy ads.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#177

Post by dmd »

whyagaindavid wrote: post #149
eridius wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded. They see user data as a liability and work very hard to collect as little as possible in order to provide the services they do. The idea that Apple is going to discard all of th…

Can you post a link to close my appleID? Yes, you can close a Google/ Microsoft account with few clicks

Did you try googling "delete apple id"? It's pretty straightforward. Given that, what point are you trying to make?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#178

Post by jakeogh »

chimeracoder wrote: post #115
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

> It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. Smartphone or not, carrying any phone means providing this information to your carrier at all times. I don't like the idea of sending this information to anybody, but to be honest, Google is the entity that I'm the las…

Only by design. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10985599

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#179

Post by khedoros1 »

clementine95 wrote: post #99
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Come on, there is nothing impractical about not using a smartphone. You’re free to invent any excuse you need to justify your use of it, but there is virtually nothing you need a smartphone for. The obvious answer is not to get an iphone. Today it’s android, tomorrow it’s apple—you’re willingly using a massive closed stack to handle your location at all times. Trust is simply naive. If you accept you’re trading priva…

Well, yes, it's all convenience. So is having a phone in the first place. Or access to easy transportation. I'd argue that it's convenient to the point of being impractical to do without.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#180

Post by thisacctforreal »

mattrices wrote: post #49
sarcasmic wrote: post #32

When I'm at work, I use my work computer, which has a long lived static IP, to log into my personal Google account. I have configured all of my browsers to clear cookies and storage upon closing. I never use signed-in Google Maps, but I sometimes use it from that computer, from fresh browser while logged out. A week ago, I moved from my previous home that was close to my work, to a different city about 20 miles away.…

Google can use user prediction to guess which account you are with your browser, ip, ism, mac address, and other persistant metadata. Its how their whole 'you signed in from a new location' security scheme works.

Sure, but why would they re-center the map for a logged-out device, even if they can tell it's overwhelmingly likely that it's the same user?
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