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ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

nytimes.com

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Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#171

Post by scruple »

CalChris wrote: post #92

My cousin played O line for Missouri. He loves football and I love my cuz. He's a college ref and was NFL chain crew for the Rams. I can't talk to him about this. Total denial. He's even mad that parents are voting with their feet by not sending their children into Pop Warner leagues.

I come from a CFB family, of sorts. My brother was special teams for a D1 school. One of my cousins was a DE for Clemson. Another two cousins played ball for a D3 school. This is all spanning from the mid 90s to the late 00s.

Of them, my brother and the two that played at the D3 school are still hardcore CFB and NFL fans but they do openly discuss the CTE issues and are not thrilled at the idea of their own children playing. My cousin who went to Clemson, though, is still a hardcore fan and is in total denial. Out of the four of them, he got the closest to going pro and I imagine that has something to do with it.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#172

Post by cratermoon »

pwthornton wrote: post #166

Football's core problem is still denial that this is an issue. Until that happens, real, concrete steps won't be taken to address it. Here are a few suggestions: 1) No tackle football before a certain age (to be determined by scientists based on brain development and how damaging a concussion would be). You can learn a ton about football, running routes, learning plays, getting in shape, etc. without hitting people.…

> Ban players for PEDs .... Suspensions are not enough, because even if a player stops doing them, he may have made himself unnaturally big, strong and fast.

This is really insightful. I don't know much about HGH but I know steroid use is something that a guy can do for a while, gain muscle and size, and stop, and yes, some of that size will go away, but there's a base that will never go away. That's a fact a lot of folks don't know, that steroids have permanent effects. The sport may catch a guy cycling and suspend him for a few games or a season, but it doesn't matter. He's already gotten growth that he can then build on without PEDs, and gotten an advantage over guys who never use steroids.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#173

Post by Waterluvian »

Pxtl wrote: post #50
kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

Hockey can be a beautiful game of finesse, speed, and precision. It could absolutely be re-worked.

Football is fundamentally flawed. Many positions exist entirely because it's rough and violent. Players who never touch the football in a well played game.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#174

Post by mysterydip »

Bud wrote: post #56
aaron-lebo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Willingly plays 5 years in the league, makes $10,000,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. 2. Willingly works 5 years in the factory, makes $10,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. Why does the first situation bother us so much more than the second? Most products we use are built via the second, but you're probably still using those products. The NFL seems like better employment than…

You're leaving out the fact that most of these players never get to the NFL, and they have a very high risk of brain injury, but they get paid $0.00, even though their work is generating billions for the NCAA, for ESPN, for basically every large university in the country, etc. College football players need to be paid fair market value.

Don't they essentially get paid with free tuition and such? Not that it's fair market value, but it's not $0 either.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#175

Post by planteen »

Waterluvian wrote: post #173
Pxtl wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hockey has the advantage that the sport could we reworked into something less violent. Hockey could survive a change to the rules that would reduce blows to the head. Football is such an intrinsically contact sport that I don't think a safer game would even be recognizable. Actually, that might be worse... If hockey turns out to have as bad a concussion problem, the leadership of the sport is likely even more culpabl…

Hockey can be a beautiful game of finesse, speed, and precision. It could absolutely be re-worked. Football is fundamentally flawed. Many positions exist entirely because it's rough and violent. Players who never touch the football in a well played game.

Football can also be played with flags or where players are not tackled by saying the play is over when momentum is stopped. Countless intramural and pickup games are played like this every day. And you still have an offensive line in setup, depending on the number of players.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#176

Post by mi100hael »

Pxtl wrote: post #121
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard arguments that fights in hockey reduce the overall level of violence through changing incentives. Basically, it means that rough play will get you punched, so people are less willing to futz around on the ice.

I've heard that before - like the reason that Crosby spends so much time laid out is that the Pens refused to use an enforcer to punish the guys who were roughing him up. That, to me, sounds like anarchy on the ice. Like the game is either impossible to properly referee or the referees are incompetent or the refs simply have been told to ignore a certain level of violence.

Nah, you're over thinking it. Heavy hits are perfectly legal and (for the most part) the refs aren't making mistakes or ignoring illegal behavior. Enforcers just discourage the opposing team from making those legal hits.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#177

Post by criley2 »

eropple wrote: post #133
addicted wrote: post #31

It's become increasingly difficult for me to watch football as well. I really enjoy the sport, but the research is pretty unforgiving. I can still justify watching the NFL because the players are getting paid very well, and at least at this point are aware of the risks. But it is impossible for me to justify watching college anymore. I was always leary of the billion dollar contracts conferences were signing, while s…

The NFL doesn't exist without the legions of unpaid, bodies-broken, brain-scrambled college ( and high school ) athletes who get nothing for their troubles.

I would argue that the NCAA stands in the way of a true professional minor system similar to Baseball.

NFL doesn't prevent the minors from existing, NCAA does.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#178

Post by soperj »

BurningFrog wrote: post #157
kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

I'm a Swede who grew up loving European hockey. NHL Hockey bores me. You can think of the difference either as physical or mental. Physical: The European rink is 100 feet wide while the NHL rink is 85 feet. This gives a lot more space to skate around people rather than through them, more space and time for a passing and placement game, more time for smart play over brute force play. Mental: Each continent plays hocke…

Europe has no standard size rink. Finnish league is different from the Swedish league etc.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#179

Post by Brendinooo »

santoshalper wrote: post #119
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just can't support the NFL. I'm not sure what the NFL does that's wrong. Their players get significant fame, are consenting adults, and get pay checks that many would trade even more of their health for. It is the college level, and especially the high school level, that I see the major problems at. When you have kids, or even people who aren't paid, risking their health it crosses a significant line. If college p…

Also, the NFL uses College and High School Football as free development leagues. If HS and CFB didn't exist, where would the NFL get their players?

This...doesn't quite compute to me. Professional football was born out of amateur athletic clubs and college clubs. The lack of a development league for the NFL is lamentable for a few reasons, but I don't think it's insidious that people play for free then get the attention of the NFL, if only because most people play football because they enjoy the sport.

If HS and CFB didn't exist, there would be no NFL, because it would mean that everyone stopped caring about football.

(Disclosure: I live near Pittsburgh; even though I never played, the sport runs deep in the roots of the area!)

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#180

Post by JumpCrisscross »

I recently caught up with an old acquaintance. We interned together many years ago. He was on the college football team then, and quite proud of it. It hasn't been that long; he isn't that old. Yet at the end of a lunch (at which we had nothing to drink) he forgot four times in a row that we had already paid the cheque. He complained of a recent lay-off. He believes he was targeted for forgetting appointments and missing details. This shocked me--he used to have a far better memory than I did.

Maybe I'm overfitting. But I can't help but imagine that if his school, one of the top in our country, hadn't let him destroy himself under their watch, we'd still have a sharp, productive young man with us.

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