Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O • Hacker News Board

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#171

Post by avs733 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

rednerrus wrote: post #84

dogecoinbase wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they are essential to our society and are arguably more important than helping create better ads Then they should be more respected and be paid more. Until they are, asking people to go into them when better, easier jobs exist is patronizing.

Is your assertion that being a teacher or a nurse is easier than SWE?

read it again...the argument is the opposite.

And speaking for the OP, I would imagine 'easy' in this context likely includes many elements but is strongly influenced by physical demand of these activities.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#172

Post by jamesrcole » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

systems wrote: post #28

I dont understand, why did this google employee send a memo, why didnt he just write a blog about .. like normal people do I honestly think this is his biggest mistake (the google employee not the ceo) .. he didnt understand boundaries It is sad, that someone gets fired for his opinion, even if this opinion is offensive ... i do believe in ones right to be offensive But I think the medium used to express his opinion…

It was about an internal Google matter. It wouldn't have been appropriate to publicly post it

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#173

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #82

UK-AL wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The more free the genders are, the more they tend to polarise on certain careers. Since they tend to pursue what they prefer. I'm all for having no blockers for people choosing what careers they want. However people will move towards there preferences, and there preferences will be set either by nature or culture.

What evidence do we have of that?

[deleted]

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#174

Post by malandrew » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #99

Amezarak wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal definitions of a hostile work environment is not simply based on how something makes you feel. It is very unlikely a hostile work environment suit for not firing Damore based on this memo would win, though of course Google might choose to settle.

> The legal definitions of a hostile work environment is not simply based on how something makes you feel. No, but the the entire point of that essay was to advance the idea that women are less successful because of their biology. [1] > It is very unlikely a hostile work environment for not firing him based on this memo would win, though of course Google might choose to settle. Any employment lawyers want to chime in…

> No, but the the entire point of that essay was to advance the idea that women are less common in tech because of their biology

FTFY to better reflect the fact that the memo was about distribution, not success.

Are men less successful in nursing or just less common?

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#175

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #89

endorphone wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The firing has been a PR disaster, and amplified and exaggerated the effect of this issue (not to mention that it drew attention to other factors, like Google's institutional ageism). And while I don't want to diagnose over the internet, it seems like it's attacking someone on the spectrum for traits of being on the spectrum. By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, and doubled down on this discussion.…

> By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, To a small, vocal group. > By doing it in an anti-science, anti-evidence way There were good reasons for doing it that had nothing to do with science or evidence. There are women working at Google who do not need to be reminded of the genetic and biologic differences they have from their cishet male counterparts. If Damon had issues with the policies at Google…

[deleted]

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#176

Post by ynniv » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

vibrato wrote: post #130

ynniv wrote: post #88

I must have read a different memo than everyone else. The one I read said that the massive gender imbalance in software could be due to genetics, and because of that we shouldn't try to fix it with policy. But the reality is that there is a gender imbalance in software because of the way women are treated, and the best way to correct that is through policies that treat them better. It shouldn't be a stretch to see th…

Who is arguing against treating people respectfully? For the sake of argument, if a group is less inclined towards a given profession, isn't it disrespectful to push them into it?

The goal of affirmative action in general is to make a more welcoming environment. When the status quo is disrespectful, making the argument to perpetuate the status quo is making the argument to disrespect.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#177

Post by wonderwonder » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

Shank wrote: post #8

Honestly, I think he made the right move just from a PR perspective. His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. The author of the manifesto caused Google a PR disaster and created a huge state of internal conflict, valid or not. The shareholders are probably really happy that their CEO removed a person who managed to get Google so much bad press in so little time. This is the reali…

I would argue that the author did not cause the PR disaster, Google did. They author submitted the memo directly to the diversity team months ago and they ignored it. It was posted and updated on Google provided employment forums for months and Google ignored it.

They are now publicly vilifying him for expressing opinions that are now being publicly supported by scientists. They have essentially publicly attempted to silence him because they don't like his opinion, validating his initial complaints.

I don't know if Pichai should be fired but a lot of people dropped the ball on this and they have escalated a story that could have been quietly handled in house via a few conversations months ago.

I have no idea if Damore's arguments for biological differences are valid or not, some scientists have stated they are (mileage may vary) but I don't feel that anything he said was stated with malice of with the intent to denigrate anyone. He may not have had the best communication skills but he was trying to start a conversation not a war. Google for some reason responded to his inquiry with the equivalent of scorched earth and are now realizing that perhaps they overreacted.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#178

Post by revelation » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

moneytalks wrote: post #105

Let's take bets on how long this survives on the front page. I'm going with 15-20 minutes from now. Who wants the over/under? edit: Already down from 3rd to 6th while points went from 130 to 170. 7 minutes in. edit: now 7th

It sinks like a stone because it has attracted 160+ comments in a mere hour.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#179

Post by jp_sc » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

systems wrote: post #28

I dont understand, why did this google employee send a memo, why didnt he just write a blog about .. like normal people do I honestly think this is his biggest mistake (the google employee not the ceo) .. he didnt understand boundaries It is sad, that someone gets fired for his opinion, even if this opinion is offensive ... i do believe in ones right to be offensive But I think the medium used to express his opinion…

As I understand it, he posted on an internal forum designed for posting thoughts, ideas, and opinions.

Then somebody decided to "leaked" to the world.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#180

Post by Bahamut » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

ebola1717 wrote: post #61

endorphone wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The firing has been a PR disaster, and amplified and exaggerated the effect of this issue (not to mention that it drew attention to other factors, like Google's institutional ageism). And while I don't want to diagnose over the internet, it seems like it's attacking someone on the spectrum for traits of being on the spectrum. By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, and doubled down on this discussion.…

Only on the internet. I really don't think anyone in the real world is paying that much attention, and besides Brooks, I haven't seen many mainstream writers come out against the firing.

I can't say I agree about that not paying much attention - I pretty much see/hear discussion about this incident daily since Saturday. It probably doesn't help that I am in the Valley, but I have a lot of friends not in tech across the world also discussing this as well.

Almost everyone I know/interacted with believes that Damore is wrong though, if not for the viewpoint, then for his approach to trying to create a dialogue in a suboptimal fashion & its negative effects on his former colleagues.