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Apple’s China Problem

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Re: Apple’s China Problem

#171

Post by draw_down »

sangnoir wrote: post #169

The author's explanation for Apple's "China problem" is unconvincing to say the least: > [...]behind local Chinese brands like Oppo, Huawei and Vivo. All of those companies sold high-end phones of their own; the issue isn’t that Apple was too expensive, it’s that the iPhone 6S and 7 were simply too boring. Boring - that's the explanation for a significant dip in sales? I would have expected a list of exciting design…

The idea is pretty clear, I think. Apple's problem is WeChat. It's more important than the phone OS, which is different to most other countries. The effect of WeChat combined with China's sheer size is a problem for the iPhone business.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#172

Post by siproprio »

btian wrote: post #147
siproprio wrote: post #117

If the situation in China is similar to the situation in Brazil, then it is not a surprise Apple products aren't successful there. Apple services here are very poorly supported and localized, and Apple products are too expensive compared to the relative benefit we would receive. Why would you purchase a significantly more expensive device, with worse features, that sometimes don't work at all? We still haven't gotten…

But you can install Google Maps or Waze on an iPhone. I like my iPhone because it's the fastest phone in the market. Pixel costs the same, and Galaxy S8 costs more than iPhone.

You're comparing the prices of only 2 android phones, when there are a lot more models available. None of these two phones are very popular in my country or in China.

The most popular devices here are mid-end Android phones, like the Moto G series phones.

Furthermore, what is supposed to differentiate Apple is its software, because hardware is a commodity.

Being "the fastest" doesn't appeal much to costumers as compared to price, and to the default software experience.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#173

Post by Nomentatus »

shmerl wrote: post #139
eridius wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lock-in is a natural consequence of having a platform. It's perfectly normal and happens without even making any explicit attempt at having lock-in. Any time you provide a platform and people build on top of it, you have automatic lock-in. This has nothing to do with "fair competition".

Lock-in can be avoided, if platform is designed to be open. It's only "natural" when non portable or non standard things are used. Problem with Apple and MS is that they use the later on purpose.

You know it's a platform when, if you step off, it really hurts.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#174

Post by Iv »

mikhailt wrote: post #49

This seems to confuse some people, the author is not saying Apple have a monopoly on smartphones. What the author is talking about is the locked-in ecosystem that Apple owns, iOS and macOS (watchOS/tvOS). > Moreover, the advantages go beyond margins: the best way to understand both Apple’s profits and many of its choices is to understand that the company has a monopoly on not just MacOS but even more importantly iOS.…

The market working around Apple's walled garden. I suspect no one at Apple is surprised it finally happens.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#175

Post by brentis »

Switched to Pixel XL when iPhone 7 came out and killed headphone jack. Last thing I want on a phone, more things to charge and worry about.

Quality takes may forms. Pixel camera is reviewed to be better and screen is legit sRGB and it charges in 15min and lasts 1.5 days vs iPhone 7.

I also think iOS is a steaming turd. As an app dev for both platforms, I'm amazed people don't see the integration Android has with Pixel and others.

Let's see them "innovate" no home button in iPhone 8 along with a curved screen.

For the record this is being typed on my iPad...

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#176

Post by unscaled »

nullnilvoid wrote: post #97
gnrlist wrote: post #56

Chinese people want the Apple brand they don't care about iOS. If iOS was the status symbol it would get pirated and installed elsewhere. Apple has a strong brand because of it's history as a premium device company internationally, that's all. Their brand was their first mover advantage in China but now Chinese companies are closing that brand gap and since WeChat rules the software side Apple is going to have a hard…

Other than the brand factor, iPhone is actually a better phone. Before the current iPhone I have, I had always been an Android user. I used entry-level Android phones, high-end Android phones such as Samsung Galaxy, iPhone is clearly a better phone. iOS feels more smooth, reliable, battery-efficient in many ways than Android phones. Honestly, I have not looked back since the switch.

> iPhone is clearly a better phone. iOS feels more smooth, reliable, battery-efficient in many ways than Android phones.

So what you're saying is that iOS is a better OS.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#177

Post by btian »

siproprio wrote: post #172
btian wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can install Google Maps or Waze on an iPhone. I like my iPhone because it's the fastest phone in the market. Pixel costs the same, and Galaxy S8 costs more than iPhone.

You're comparing the prices of only 2 android phones, when there are a lot more models available. None of these two phones are very popular in my country or in China. The most popular devices here are mid-end Android phones, like the Moto G series phones. Furthermore, what is supposed to differentiate Apple is its software, because hardware is a commodity. Being "the fastest" doesn't appeal much to costumers as compa…

Yeah I guess it makes sense for people who are not rich.

Mid-end phones don't appeal to me at all.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#178

Post by sangnoir »

draw_down wrote: post #171
sangnoir wrote: post #169

The author's explanation for Apple's "China problem" is unconvincing to say the least: > [...]behind local Chinese brands like Oppo, Huawei and Vivo. All of those companies sold high-end phones of their own; the issue isn’t that Apple was too expensive, it’s that the iPhone 6S and 7 were simply too boring. Boring - that's the explanation for a significant dip in sales? I would have expected a list of exciting design…

The idea is pretty clear, I think. Apple's problem is WeChat. It's more important than the phone OS, which is different to most other countries. The effect of WeChat combined with China's sheer size is a problem for the iPhone business.

WeChat is available on iPhones and its competitors. Since it is a common factor, WeChat alone cannot explain the decline in iPhone sales.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#179

Post by Oletros »

nullnilvoid wrote: post #97
gnrlist wrote: post #56

Chinese people want the Apple brand they don't care about iOS. If iOS was the status symbol it would get pirated and installed elsewhere. Apple has a strong brand because of it's history as a premium device company internationally, that's all. Their brand was their first mover advantage in China but now Chinese companies are closing that brand gap and since WeChat rules the software side Apple is going to have a hard…

Other than the brand factor, iPhone is actually a better phone. Before the current iPhone I have, I had always been an Android user. I used entry-level Android phones, high-end Android phones such as Samsung Galaxy, iPhone is clearly a better phone. iOS feels more smooth, reliable, battery-efficient in many ways than Android phones. Honestly, I have not looked back since the switch.

> Other than the brand factor, iPhone is actually a better phone

But since a couple of years, any smartphone in a mid range price is good enough.

iPhones provide better experience and hardware? Perhaps, I won't debate that, they are premium and Apple does a fantastic job integrating their software with their hardware.

But to an average user, why pay +$700 when to their use case a $300 smartphone servers them well?

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#180

Post by echaozh »

There's a question under which people discuss what would happen if WeChat is blocked from AppStore on a Chinese quora like Q&A site Zhihu.[1] Tencent removed a tipping the author feature from WeChat because Apple wanted a share from the tips, which made the blocking worries more realistic than many people may think.

The people on Zhihu, possibly the richer and more knowledgeable among the Chinese internet users, supported WeChat, which is a vital tool for work as well as everyday life. It's an IM, and when every relative and friend uses it, it's not possible to switch overnight if Apple actually blocks it. What's more, its only competitor in China is another product of Tencent, QQ.

So, Apple is facing a huge China problem, and it's trying to solve it. However, it is yet unclear if it can solve it, or be solved by it. I think the walled garden policy actually backfires in China. Android, as an open platform, is not that easy to kill, even though all Google services are blocked here. However, iOS can. Without a big enough market share, it will die like IE6, without Chinese developers willing to write apps for it.

[1] https://www.zhihu.com/question/58776977

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