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Apple’s China Problem

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161–170 of 190 posts

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#161
post #159
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The companies appear busy concoting marketing features and not with improving the functionality and experience. Really?? I feel Google and partners are introducing great new things and polishing existing stuff on a daily basis. Windows phone on the other hand is doing the exact opposite :(

Google, charitably, continues to step on their own d|ck at every possible opportunity when it comes to text communication (chat and sms). Apple definitely got this overwhelmingly correct with iMessage. Google can't even decide what stuff belongs in what app, and they've done the Hokey Pokey more times than I can count. SMS is now integrated in Google voice. SMS is now integrated into Hangouts. SMS is now moving out o…

To be fair, apple has still not fixed their screw-you-for-leaving-ios-for-android SMS delivery bug after three years and one class action lawsuit...

What is windowsphone? The best smartphone OS before it was sabotaged from inside.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#162
post #134

The problem with many tech analysts is that they are Apple fanboys without even knowing that they are. Stating that Microsoft Surface and Samsung S8 are not competitors of Apple just because their products don't run Mac OS/iOS is pure fanaticism at the very least. Nevertheless, I find that the main point of the article is right. But Apple's China problem is also a very important problem for Google (actually, it's wor…

The fanboyism is strong on this one. > iPhone users very rarely switch to Android, while a fair number of Android users switch to iPhone > this is the point that was forgotten the last time Samsung was held up as an iPhone threat — a Samsung smartphone does not run iOS. That has always been Apple’s trump card Considering this is a stats blog these bold claims are both made without any proof. And Android being a far c…

Various third party firms have said for years that the amount of switchers from iPhone to Android pales in comparison to the switchers to iPhone.

Also Apple usually says it themselves on their earnings calls.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without wading into a my-anecdotes-against yours battle, I think most would agree that at this point Chinese smartphone shoppers have options from Xiaomi and Huawei among others[1] that are of equal quality to Apple hardware (and may be better designed for their market). 1: http://time.com/4547129/china-smartphone-market-oppo-vivo-xi...

The world has access to phones from Xiaomi and Huawei. If they were equal to iPhones they would be selling out in Ireland, Australia, Cambodia - everywhere. Guess what ? They aren't equal to iPhones.

Xiaomi are not available for sale outside of China. (Well, not without jumping through hoops and weird resellers).

They have zero name recognition worldwide and the platform is fitted to the china market. There are some minor localisation and translation work to go global. Most important of all: They lack the brand recognition (westerner are very sensitive to branding and associate china with cheap shit).

Outside of that, they do S6/iphone7 equivalents for half the price.

They could blow away every single android manufacturers single handedly if they went global.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#164
post #161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, charitably, continues to step on their own d|ck at every possible opportunity when it comes to text communication (chat and sms). Apple definitely got this overwhelmingly correct with iMessage. Google can't even decide what stuff belongs in what app, and they've done the Hokey Pokey more times than I can count. SMS is now integrated in Google voice. SMS is now integrated into Hangouts. SMS is now moving out o…

To be fair, apple has still not fixed their screw-you-for-leaving-ios-for-android SMS delivery bug after three years and one class action lawsuit... What is windowsphone? The best smartphone OS before it was sabotaged from inside.

I agree there's shenanigans with iMessage, which is why it's not perfect. But I personally have no evidence it's malicious rather than incompetency, and in other respects it's better than what Google is doing by leaps and bounds. (And I use Android, not iOS).

Windows Phone, I think given how far behind Microsoft was at the time it finally was released, they should have rolled it out as completely free and open source. And even at anytime up until about two years ago they could have done this. Now, I think it wouldn't matter. Too bad.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#165
post #161
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, charitably, continues to step on their own d|ck at every possible opportunity when it comes to text communication (chat and sms). Apple definitely got this overwhelmingly correct with iMessage. Google can't even decide what stuff belongs in what app, and they've done the Hokey Pokey more times than I can count. SMS is now integrated in Google voice. SMS is now integrated into Hangouts. SMS is now moving out o…

To be fair, apple has still not fixed their screw-you-for-leaving-ios-for-android SMS delivery bug after three years and one class action lawsuit... What is windowsphone? The best smartphone OS before it was sabotaged from inside.

As far as I know you can deregister a number from iMessage by logging in to your appleID on the web. There's no simple way for hem know whether you've switched to android or just put your phone in a drawer unless you log in and tell them.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#166
post #56

Chinese people want the Apple brand they don't care about iOS. If iOS was the status symbol it would get pirated and installed elsewhere. Apple has a strong brand because of it's history as a premium device company internationally, that's all. Their brand was their first mover advantage in China but now Chinese companies are closing that brand gap and since WeChat rules the software side Apple is going to have a hard…

Chinese consumers do care about iOS vs Android. It's just that the Android ecosystem has been much too horrible in China (Play being blocked, big-name companies have their own "app store", affiliated apps keep waking up each other in background to increase DAU). Those problems go away automatically if you pick iPhone.

The best-selling Android phones in China (Oppo/Vivo, Huawei, Xiaomi) have this horrible problem in control, by providing their customized Android with aggressive permission control, background apps cleanup etc. This also closes up the gap between iOS and Android without Google's presence.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#168

This seems to confuse some people, the author is not saying Apple have a monopoly on smartphones. What the author is talking about is the locked-in ecosystem that Apple owns, iOS and macOS (watchOS/tvOS). > Moreover, the advantages go beyond margins: the best way to understand both Apple’s profits and many of its choices is to understand that the company has a monopoly on not just MacOS but even more importantly iOS.…

This is not an issue just for China. Naver/kakao in South Korea also are like this. Apps that are all-inclusive are the norm. It's because the government is picking winners. Ie, someone tied to the government.

Edit: Alternately, West-style VC wasn't funding companies so Asian gov't stepped in.

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#169
The author's explanation for Apple's "China problem" is unconvincing to say the least:

> [...]behind local Chinese brands like Oppo, Huawei and Vivo. All of those companies sold high-end phones of their own; the issue isn’t that Apple was too expensive, it’s that the iPhone 6S and 7 were simply too boring.

Boring - that's the explanation for a significant dip in sales? I would have expected a list of exciting design or features that Oppo, Huawei and Vivo are putting into their phones to steal customers from Apple, because historically their flagships have been equally 'boring'.

The "China Problem" is at the crux of the matter (title of the post), and the explanation is too hand-wavy for my taste. My default attitude to tech industry analysts is cynicism; I do wonder who exactly pays for such superficial analyses and what value do they get from them?

Re: Apple’s China Problem

#170
The blog post completely misses the near total influence of the Chinese government. Yes, China is a different ecosystem and that has second order effects. But it's still important to get the direction of causality right.

In nearly every country around the world, Android phones are dependent on and dominated by the Google ecosystem. They aren't in China. Why? Because Google services are banned. So is Facebook. So are some of Apple's services. Even back when Google was cooperating with the PRC and trying hard for the local market, executives rightly or wrongly claimed that whenever their marketshare passed 30% regulators turned nasty.

Many, many foreign companies have poured resources into China and the few that have succeeded have generally done so on the strength of a global brand—such as Coke, LV or Apple. That doesn't mean that Apple's challenges in China are simply due to market forces though. China's decision to ban all K-pop, K-dramas and other Korean media over their recent missile defense system shows that much.

Simply put, WeChat violated multiple rules on Apple's App Store on its way up that have enabled it to act like the platform it does today. In any other country Apple would have simply refused to push non-compliant updates, but in China Apple faced the risk of being barred from the market entirely. Years later, WeChat is now so dominant that Apple would have to capitulate for market reasons alone.

>"WeChat is that, but it is also for reading news, for hailing taxis, for paying for lunch (try and pay with cash for lunch, and you’ll look like a luddite)"

That's just not true. Most lunches in China are not bought via WeChat. Even inside the 2nd ring road in Beijing, cash is very common.

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