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Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

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Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#171

Post by int_19h »

AnOscelot wrote: post #108
anigbrowl wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6) It's all part of God's plan That sounds like a cheap shot but the sad reality is that there are quite a few people who seriously believe that this is part of the rapture/apocalypse/tribulation revealed in Bible prophecy and that attempts to prevent or even mitigate against it are satanic. Of course that's completely bonkers but we have to remember that there's a significant contingent invested in the idea that the…

If anyone has people like this in your life, the Bible gives you a little ammo for changing their mind. First of all, mankind was given stewardship over the Earth. God expects people to not trash the place. Secondly, Jesus was quite emphatic that no one would know the day & time of his return. He did say there would be warning signs, but also said it would still be a surprise. If someone wants to destroy the world in…

> If anyone has people like this in your life, the Bible gives you a little ammo for changing their mind. First of all, mankind was given stewardship over the Earth. God expects people to not trash the place.

People who believe such things generally justify them by that very stewardship clause. According to that take, God gave the planet to humans, so however they use it is fine and accounted for. So either AGW simply isn't real, or if it is, God will take care of it.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#172

Post by [deleted] »

averagewall wrote: post #168
RandyRanderson wrote: post #133

Sea level rise is neither the largest nor most immediate threat of climate change. Water happens to have one of the highest, and I would argue, the most important thermal capacity of all the compounds we're likely to come into contact with daily. Water has about 5-10x the heat capacity of most common things and so heating up the all the oceans by say 2 degs average is an ENORMOUS amount of energy. Why is this importa…

What's wrong with migration? People do that anyway when they move out of their parent's house and into their own, often in another city. You describe storms becoming more frequent, which is something insurance companies will see a mile away and increase premiums or refuse to provide cover for. That will reduce the value of property in those areas and property buyers will go further inland instead. It sounds like some…

[deleted]

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#173

Post by aaron695 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #152
nickff wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telling poor people that the only power they are allowed to have is too expensive for them to afford does result in their having shorter lifespans. Energy is one of the keys to modernity; you can't power an MRI machine with UN-subsidized corn. If you provide them with solar, wind, nuclear, geothermal, tidal, or possibly fusion power at costs lower than or equal to organic fuels, they will not suffer (and might benefi…

Lack of MRI scanners doesn't shorten life spans significantly, lack of clean water and good nutrition is what's significant.

Clean water and good nutrition come from cheap energy.

The Saudis can go a hell of a lot cheaper for oil.

Unless you're willing to kill people we are going to have a mess to clean up in the future.

Which is ok, because in the future tech will be way more advanced.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#174

Post by cr1895 »

adt2bt wrote: post #164
Udik wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And these statements are based on what? There have been some major earthquakes around the world in the last 20 years, are they also caused by global warming? Do you project an increase in them in the next 20 years? Here's a page with good, updated information about global warming and hurricanes: https://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/global-warming-and-hurricanes/

Goodness, that was a ridiculously condescending comment considering you could have just provided the NOAA link and had a positive discussion instead.

>Goodness, that was a ridiculously condescending comment

I read no condescension in it.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#175

Post by jug »

pg314 wrote: post #163
jraines wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would every last human die? I mean, sure, millions or even billions . . . but not one human surviving with all the resources and resourcefulness we have at our disposal?

There are more than enough nukes out there to do the job. Famines and massive numbers of refugees will almost inevitably lead to wars...

The recent Syrian refugee crisis, which has been thought to be among the first crisises partially induced by global warming (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ominous-story-of-...), has already ensured most of the EU has right extremism on the rise and sometimes already strongly influencing governments.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#176

Post by programmernews3 »

peteretep wrote: post #74
lend000 wrote: post #41

Geo-engineering projects could not come too soon. Because of how grand they are in scale, they don't seem to get much attention from the mainstream scientific community, but it seems feasible technologically (albeit expensive) to put forth major projects to reflect sunlight over deserts and capture significant amounts of carbon from power plants and oceans, amongst numerous other creative approaches. https://en.wikip…

> Geo-engineering projects could not > come too soon And also, treating climate-change deniers like a cross between holocaust deniers and flat-earthers can't come soon enough.

We also need to treat people that ignore evidence of racial differences the same then.

It is obvious to see - marathon runners, sprinters, etc

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#177

Post by rebuilder »

This seems like a huge issue, and frankly I'm terrified by it. That said, what's with the article?

Where are the numbers? How much of a contribution is this likely to have on atmospheric CO2 levels? All this says is "bad news everyone", but doesn't quantify it.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#178

Post by omginternets »

averagewall wrote: post #168
RandyRanderson wrote: post #133

Sea level rise is neither the largest nor most immediate threat of climate change. Water happens to have one of the highest, and I would argue, the most important thermal capacity of all the compounds we're likely to come into contact with daily. Water has about 5-10x the heat capacity of most common things and so heating up the all the oceans by say 2 degs average is an ENORMOUS amount of energy. Why is this importa…

What's wrong with migration? People do that anyway when they move out of their parent's house and into their own, often in another city. You describe storms becoming more frequent, which is something insurance companies will see a mile away and increase premiums or refuse to provide cover for. That will reduce the value of property in those areas and property buyers will go further inland instead. It sounds like some…

>What's wrong with migration? People do that anyway when they move out of their parent's house and into their own, often in another city

This is hardly the kind of migration we're talking about. Come on... a bit of intellectual honesty goes a long way.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#179

Post by dTal »

pdkl95 wrote: post #91
graeme wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well would geoengineering work, considering the acididation of the oceans? I haven't seen any proposals to handle that, yet it seems like a fairly major consequence all on its own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtQxF_3BSxQ#t=567 This is the only proposal I've seen regarding ocean acidification. In brief, we need massive amounts of lime to dump into the ocean as an artificial carbon cycle. The problem is how to get lime? If we have massive amounts of clean power, something similar to the cement process (CaCO3 -> CaO) is possible because limestone is cheap. The problem is the energy requirement…

If we have massive amounts of clean power a lot of the problem goes away anyway. It's not worth taking any proposal that uses vast amounts of electricity seriously, since it's the generation of vast amounts of electricity that causes the problem in the first place.

Re: Massive permafrost thaw documented in Canada, portending huge carbon release

#180

Post by tim333 »

omginternets wrote: post #178
averagewall wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with migration? People do that anyway when they move out of their parent's house and into their own, often in another city. You describe storms becoming more frequent, which is something insurance companies will see a mile away and increase premiums or refuse to provide cover for. That will reduce the value of property in those areas and property buyers will go further inland instead. It sounds like some…

>What's wrong with migration? People do that anyway when they move out of their parent's house and into their own, often in another city This is hardly the kind of migration we're talking about. Come on... a bit of intellectual honesty goes a long way.

There may be a bit of short distance migration if the sea rises. It's projected to rise a meter or two this century so people could build inland a bit, planning permission willing.
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