How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations • Hacker News Board

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#171

Post by wallace_f » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:10 AM UTC

FrancoDiaz wrote: post #10

I have a 4 year old, in my mid 40s, and think about this a lot for some reason. In the 70s during the summer, when I was around 7, we would wake up, eat breakfast, go out and about wherever we wanted, come back for lunch, out again, come back for dinner, and then out again past dark to play flashlight tag. I think I would be charged with child endangerment these days if my kid (3 years in the future) was doing stuff…

>I think I've been conditioned to think that I would be a negligent parent if I did this.

>The media is part of the problem. 24/7 news, social media, and channels like ID (real life murder 24/7) scare the bejeezus out of people. But besides that, we have an acceptance of nanny-state government - that the government should be a much closer "partner" in child rearing than 40 years ago.

The whole intent is to condition you to normality. Not unlike civil forfeiture and intrusive security checks when travelling.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#172

Post by remarkEon » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:13 AM UTC

A lot of the anecdotes in this thread seem to be from more rural areas or out in a small town. I grew up in Minneapolis (born in the 80s) and could do all these things in our neighborhood in the summers (except for shooting guns, but I'd get that in the summer with my cousins in South Dakota). I'd meet up with the neighborhood kids around 11 and my mom (or one of their moms) would have lunch and snacks ready for us around 1 or so. We'd just roam around the neighborhood all day playing street hockey or basketball or whatever.

...none of this goes on in my neighborhood anymore. One proximate cause that I think we're missing is that a lot of us moved away, and housing costs are so high that I'm putting off buying a home and my friends are too - or are doing so out in the suburbs. Demographic changeover could be a contributing factor.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#173

Post by rumcajz » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:15 AM UTC

m_mueller wrote: post #136

JabavuAdams wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main concern would be traffic. I live in an affluent neighbourhood with a lot of stressed people driving SUVs. I've had a car run over my foot. On one occasion, my kids had to be yanked out of the way by their mother to avoid being hit by a left-turning car that didn't see them. My impression is that the Swiss are more fastidious about following traffic regulations. Is this outdated?

It probably depends on the location in the US, but every time I go there I find Americans amazingly relaxed when driving. Swiss are probably some of the more careful drivers in continental Europe (which is to say they're slow), but I think it's still way more nervous than in the US. However, one of the issues is probably the sheer size of US roads, it's just much harder to cross I think. And from my own experience, k…

I've also seen lots of hand-made signs like "Attention! Kids! Voluntary 30km/h!" in Switzerland.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#174

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:16 AM UTC

pharrlax wrote: post #155

freehunter wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading the parent I was about to say "I'm almost 30 and I barely feel safe wandering alone". Not just crossing major roads (I live downtown in my little city, but I have to cross a major road to get to any shops, which puts a big damper on my walking) but just one person walking down the road, by themselves? It's almost a scandal. And if I'm biking around town, especially not dressed in spandex like a bicyclis…

This is one of the biggest reasons it was refreshing as hell to move to the big city, as paradoxical as that sounds. Rural/suburban life is like living in a barren wasteland marked by occasional oases you have to travel between in a metal spaceship. Living in an area where commuting to work and activities by foot is completely normal feels like rediscovering a lost sense of communal society, and there's a relief and…

>Rural >barren wasteland

If you're a glass half empty person. Many people see it as freedom to do close to whatever you want without anyone caring.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#175

Post by brandonmenc » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:18 AM UTC

pshposh wrote: post #23

ahoy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience in the rural south in the 90s, for what it's worth. I was largely given free reign to tromp around the (expansive) woods, had a bb gun that I liked to tote around, and at one point had a motorcycle - a ratty little 50cc honda dirtbike that I repeatedly wrecked into ditches and briar patches. Point is, at least for "country" millennials, I think plenty of roaming did happen.

At least for me this happened in suburbia too in the 90s. (Minus the motorcycle) edit: $1.25 at Burgerville is bonkers to me. We just had $0.29/$0.39 burger/cheeseburger Tuesday deal at McDonalds. Those days are gone...

Ditto - early 90s, suburbia, Great Lakes region.

Latchkey kid, summers spent biking around a couple mile radius, walked to the mall to play arcade games and eat McDonalds... magical times.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#176

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:19 AM UTC

deelowe wrote: post #139

Kluny wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Media is part of it, but the other part is this, taken from the first comment on the linked article: "I can’t help but notice how many freeways and roads are between Sheffield and Rother Valley. We can’t blame parents alone for the loss of childhood freedom. Since 1919 We have purposely designed our cities to maximize vehicle throughput and require car ownership and the result is an environment that is lethal for 8 y…

This is definitely the issue from what I see. I have a neighborhood road that runs in front of my home. Speed limit is 25 mph. Doesn't matter, cars still do 55 or more at times. When I was growing up, you'd never see anyone going that fast down a residential street.

Because kids playing in the street, cyclist and other hazards were more common, road markings were less obvious and road surfaces were rougher.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#177

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:20 AM UTC

pyre wrote: post #164

hueving wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isnt it. The town I grew up in had precisely the same number of interstates and major roads as it did 30 years ago (flat population) and children today have nowhere near the freedom that I did as a child.

Are you saying that the causes can't be different from town to town or region to region, or that such actions couldn't be justified and rational in one region, while not justified and irrational in another region?

No, he's saying that "there's more roads so people drive everywhere" is not the blanket scapegoat that many around here make it out out to be.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#178

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:22 AM UTC

ehnto wrote: post #70

NamTaf wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, in a recent brief visit to Switzerland I stayed with some friends in a small village near Zug and saw examples of this sort of attitude throughout more aspects of life than just child-raising. For example, many farmers were leaving produce out with price tags on and relying on an honour system for payment. Some did a 'pay what you want' system for their produce and just relied on people to do the right th…

I recall my childhood in rural Australia and am greatful for our freedom then and hopefully still now. We would ride for hours all around town, once even riding to a neighboring town along the coast. Doors and cars are also typically unlocked, sometimes the keys are left in the car too. I have always mused that if you wanted to steal a bunch of cars you would just take a trailer to a country town and load them right…

>Doors and cars are also typically unlocked, sometimes the keys are left in the car too. I have always mused that if you wanted to steal a bunch of cars you would just take a trailer to a country town and load them right up.

>It all worked out fine because it was a small community and people would know who did what. Steal a car? Where are you gonna drive it? Everyone will know it's not yours.

>The other thing I imagine helps is that there are fewer mentally unstable people just thanks to there being fewer people. So someone "a bit off" would be known to the community. That can be good and bad.

Congratulations on describing a small town pretty much anywhere in the western world.

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#179

Post by jimmaswell » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:23 AM UTC

johngalt wrote: post #169

jimmaswell wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone considered that, like many things, maybe childraising knowledge has improved over time, and maybe it is true that it's dangerous and a bad idea to let them roam around far away unsupervised? It always seemed reasonable to me, even when I was that age myself. An anecdote is that the only bone injury I had as a kid resulted from riding bikes with some other kids who had a "fun idea" of biking down this steep…

> I ended up with a crushed wrist and internal bruising, and I was lucky I even lived. And I bet you wear a seat belt every day in your car as an adult. Invincibility is one of those myths you want to dispel when kids are young and the stakes aren't as high.

I wore my seat belt every day before that anyway, not even because I had to but because I wanted to. The only thing that really changed after that point was I didn't want to ride bikes anymore.

I really can't be the only one who thinks brushes with death are not a good thing to have just because they can teach you a lesson when you're fortunate enough to walk away from them. Would you also say Russian Roulette is a good thing to try out because you might learn to value life more afterwards?

Re: How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations

#180

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 02, 2017, 4:24 AM UTC

Fuzzwah wrote: post #126

irrational wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly. Typically there will be a sign that lets you know how much the produce is per imperial pound. There are analog scales there that you can use to weigh your produce to give you an idea of how much it will be, but the real digital scales are at checkout. At self-checkout you put the produce onto a scale and then click on the picture of the produce your are purchasing so the computer can correlate the weight…

... and the staff member hovering around the self check out area.

Who is definitely going to notice the that you rung up something expensive as something cheap...