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Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

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Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#171

Post by Terretta »

dempseye wrote: post #170
neilk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, some, probably most people, "see" sheep. After reading Blake Ross' discussion of this I've been wondering how to explain it to the aphantasic. It's a little bit like having a second monitor except it doesn't occupy a part of your visual field. For most people, except da Vinci, it's fainter and less detailed than a real sense impression. Like I can be sitting in a coffeeshop and think of a sunset. The first sunse…

There is a language problem here where it is impossible to be sure that when people describe subjective experiences in the same words they are actually having the same qualitative experience. I don't take it too seriously. It's just a jumping off point for a conversation about an interesting perceptual quirk.

He says second monitor. My wife just said she sees as though her glasses are off at first. Very visual words from neilk and her both.

Unlike glasses or monitor, my "collections of attributes" when asked to actively generate a sense of things ("Picture X") seems more non-visual attributes.

Picture a chair: wood, cool to touch, weighs this much in the hand, makes a scraping noise when slid, fairly clean design with straight high back, no arms but indents for buttocks, sturdy, can be stood on to reach things. I just don't see an imaginary visual of one.

// I can mentally/visually flip through an endless card deck of them, like nielk's Google Image Search example. I don't feel like I can visually put an imaginary one in an imaginary room in my mind.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#172

Post by qubyte »

dempseye wrote: post #164
qubyte wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ditto on all counts. I've only recently become aware that the way I experience or remember the world is in any way unusual. I'd always thought that mental imagery was a metaphor for something or hyperbole. It also explains why my memory seems deficient. I've no problems with facts, but I have no memory of being a participant in events. Contrary to the article, I have no problem recognising people. It's like I keep a…

No problem recognising people here either. It's like a hash, as you said. I'd say it operates more like a bloom filter in my head, as I will always remember an image if I see it again, but previously unseen images can still occasionally spark a feeling of recognition.

Oh interesting. That is a better fit, yes.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#173

Post by Natanael_L »

neilk wrote: post #167
dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

Yes, some, probably most people, "see" sheep. After reading Blake Ross' discussion of this I've been wondering how to explain it to the aphantasic. It's a little bit like having a second monitor except it doesn't occupy a part of your visual field. For most people, except da Vinci, it's fainter and less detailed than a real sense impression. Like I can be sitting in a coffeeshop and think of a sunset. The first sunse…

For me it is usually either a spatially disconnected weak image not anchored anywhere, or when I try to picture things within my field of vision it is like my imagination is being shown as a reflection in glass, like when you look out through a window at the real world and see your room faintly in the reflection, where I see my imagination like that reflection.

The strength of it varies with my focus and general mental state (it is easier when I'm relaxed).

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#174

Post by Natanael_L »

neilk wrote: post #167
dempseye wrote: post #148

I took the test and apparently I fall into the lowest five percent for richness of mental imagery. I recall being frustrated by exhortations to "close [my] eyes and imagine" things as a child, as if I was being asked to do something evidently impossible. And I always assumed that the counting sheep thing was mostly about the counting and that nobody could actually see sheep when they did it. Do people really see shee…

Yes, some, probably most people, "see" sheep. After reading Blake Ross' discussion of this I've been wondering how to explain it to the aphantasic. It's a little bit like having a second monitor except it doesn't occupy a part of your visual field. For most people, except da Vinci, it's fainter and less detailed than a real sense impression. Like I can be sitting in a coffeeshop and think of a sunset. The first sunse…

For me it is usually either a spatially disconnected weak image not anchored anywhere, or when I try to picture things within my field of vision it is like my imagination is being shown as a reflection in glass, like when you look out through a window at the real world and see your room faintly in the reflection, where I see my imagination like that reflection.

The strength of it varies with my focus and general mental state (it is easier when I'm relaxed).

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#175

Post by neilk »

dempseye wrote: post #170
neilk wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, some, probably most people, "see" sheep. After reading Blake Ross' discussion of this I've been wondering how to explain it to the aphantasic. It's a little bit like having a second monitor except it doesn't occupy a part of your visual field. For most people, except da Vinci, it's fainter and less detailed than a real sense impression. Like I can be sitting in a coffeeshop and think of a sunset. The first sunse…

There is a language problem here where it is impossible to be sure that when people describe subjective experiences in the same words they are actually having the same qualitative experience. I don't take it too seriously. It's just a jumping off point for a conversation about an interesting perceptual quirk.

There are some ways to test it though. For the past 15 minutes I've been taking "photographs" of people in this coffeeshop in my mind, closing my eyes, and trying to read details from that photograph. I take in a lot of detail but part of it is reconstructed. Like I remembered the guy had a green trilby hat, and my brain did a Google Image Search for "green trilby" and pasted it on the guy. When I opened my eyes, I saw it was actually a green plaid trilby. But in my mind's eye the image was realistic, even though I obviously hadn't truly seen it.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#176

Post by grahamburger »

Wow .. I am able to visualize things, but the part of this where he describes the work that it takes to 'chit-chat' is exactly my experience. Right after we were married I had nearly that exact conversation with my wife. She would ask 'how was your day?' and I would be unable to answer. When she pressed, thinking that I was just grumpy or worse that I was withholding something, I would become frustrated, without really knowing why, and attempt to come up with something to tell her - but it was very much just a list of bullet points from the day. I was finally able to realize for myself and then communicate to her how incredibly difficult it is for me to both remember and then come up with an explanation for what I did (or even worse - 'how I'm feeling') today. It's gotten a little bit easier through practice, and she is much more understanding now. It's comforting to hear that experience from someone else. Chat-chat is absolutely abhorrent to me - I feel entirely incapable of participating in it. He quips about the social oddness of leaving a party for two hours to think up an answer to a simple friendly question - yup, I've done that.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#178

Post by JohnBooty »

stordoff wrote: post #72
JohnBooty wrote: post #52

There are a lot of basic assumptions about thought that don't apply to everybody. My wife, for example, can't process "left" and "right" without great effort. She's intelligent and is a gifted artist in a variety of mediums, and is not dyslexic in the least. But if you tell her to "turn right" in a car it's very confusing for her to translate that into which direction she should take. Even more confusingly, she's a v…

That reminds me of a tangentially related thing I experienced. I never had a problem with left/right until I heard someone explaining the "hold your thumb out, if it makes an L that is left" 'trick'. Before hearing about that, left and right came naturally, and I 'just knew' which was which. After hearing it, I constantly second guess myself, and there is a brief (but noticeable) hesitance before I can say "Ok, that'…

I think the brief pause you describe is very common, I think? I've never struggled with right/left, but I have to pause like that.

That was my initial response to my wife - "can't you just do the 'L' trick with your hands?" It doesn't work for her. Nor does, "Well, you write with your right hand, so can't you just remember that is 'right'?" She just has a total mental block there. :)

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#179

Post by [deleted] »

0xfaded wrote: post #51
blakeross wrote: post #2

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

Wow, I just learned something new about myself. If I attempt the red triangle thought, I can place the concept of a triangle in space, but I can't see it. Similarly for the beach, my mental model is all the concepts accociated with a beach positioned in 3d space, but I don't "see" anything. However, on rare occasions I have "seen" things in my mind in absolutely perfect detail, but I have no control over what I see.…

[deleted]

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#180

Post by Terretta »

blakeross wrote: post #13
frooxie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought the "neutral inner voice" was universal. For me, most of the time, I don't have any kind of inner voice. I don't usually think in words; thinking is more like combining abstract symbols/feelings/concepts in a way that's more immediate and less linear than language.

Really?! That is fascinating to me. I am 100% language on the inside.

Curious if you've cross-correlated aphantasia or imaginary visuals of people with empathy or EQ.
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