Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#171

Post by Shog9 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:09 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #165

ant6n wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hardware of the Iphone is nice. I'd like it but with in an Android OS (and an MicroSD card slot). But then again, I wouldn't be willing for pay for that, so I'll continue using my used LG3 I picked up for like 200$.

I'd like an Android phone with the update availablity of iOS. Nexus is the closest contender, but they still stop supporting devices after about 1,5 - 2 years.

I have a G3 like the GP... Unlocked, with latest nightly (Marshmallow) builds of Cyanogenmod. Pretty painless.

You can argue that Google and the OEMs should be making these upgrades easier and more widely available... And they should... But at least 3rd-parties filling in is an option in many cases. You can shop around to find the combination of hardware and software support that you want.

The problem with getting locked into a walled garden - no matter how nice it is - is that you're still locked in when winter comes.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#172

Post by emddudley » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:12 PM UTC

stuxnet79 wrote: post #95

wrong_variable wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. What apple is saying today is something that it has always said - but its only recently that people in america are too poor to buy american products. I grew up around windows and linux, and whenever I tell that in a job interview - people think I am not being serious since "real developers" use mac. In my first software job - I was told to abandon my personal cheap linux and use the company's brand new expensive…

> I grew up around windows and linux, and whenever I tell that in a job interview - people think I am not being serious since "real developers" use mac. How true is this? I have noticed the proliferation of Macs in the developer community and I was wondering how much it would hurt me professionally by not owning one. Do devs really make snap judgements based on your platform of choice and could this impact me profess…

From my experience this shift occurred over the past 10 years or so, starting around when the MacBook Pro was released. Gradually Macs gained acceptance as developer machines, not just "creative" workstations.

I think platform preference still varies widely by industry. Macs might be common in app and web development but in engineering and systems development Windows is dominant.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#173

Post by majewsky » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

paulmd wrote: post #113

agumonkey wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an odd fact about markets. You have the high rate of progress phase where technological advances almost sell themselves. I didn't have to wonder for long to want a Pentium 200 MMX instead of my Pentium 75. Nowadays it's really tough to convince someone naturally and strongly. They have to push for new 'needs' (4K ?) or allow for crapware and subpar software to trigger the religious reflex newer = better = fast…

4K monitors are a little marginal. 27" is really too small, most people need some DPI enlargement to feel comfortable. The bigger panels increase significantly in price, but I think 32-36" would probably be about right in terms of ppi. 27" 1440P monitors are fantastic though, they strike the perfect balance between resolution, size, and price. If you're used to 22-24" monitors I really encourage you to give it a try,…

I bought a 4K monitor last year, and since it was about as expensive as all the good 24"-28" models, I went with a 40" model (the Philips BDM4065UC, to be exact). And it's amazing. 4K is awesome when you have the screen area to actually fit more content on the screen without having to Alt-Tab all the time (e.g. code + API documentation + test results). It's basically four 1080p monitors in one.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#174

Post by islane » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

Echoing the comments from others, My "main" pc is about 7 years old running the x58 platform (socket 1366) - it easily outperforms my work-supplied development laptop.

For the uninitiated, the ebay workstations mentioned are typically these ancient x58's. Most support hex core xeons, 24gb ram (or 48gb unofficially, more on server boards and some workstations), and a pile of PCI-express lanes. As such, you can easily add in PCI-express m.2 SSDs, USB 3/3.1, and GPU's to your heart's content. The takeaway is that old pc tech can be had at a fraction the cost of new hardware with comparable performance.

I understand the marketing nonsense from Apple, the "PC does what" consortium, and hardware vendors on the whole - but there is nothing sad about owning an old pc. The reality is that the best performance for the price lies in "obsolete" platforms.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#175

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #140

kzrdude wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also you will notice this in poorer countries - a strong ecosystem for recycling exists everywhere outside of the US/UK. When I brought my first bike in the UK, I wanted to repair it and was told to just ditch it and get a new one ! I'd call the US, UK poor for lacking a system of recycling. And indeed in many ways they are poorer than the most well functioning societies.

Maybe OP wanted to say "reuse/refurbish" instead of "recycle". In less rich countries there are thriving second hand markets, online and offline. Many sell the obsolete hardware they no longer need instead of throwing it away.

I still have some 9-year-old "capacitor plague" Dells. I got them gratis--due to the bad capacitors, naturally--and desoldered and re-capped them for about $15 each.

But desoldering and replacing non-SM PCB components is not the sort of repair that most people would feel comfortable doing, even if they can change the oil in their cars.

Based on the cost differential of something like an XBox mod chip versus the same mod chip plus no-hassle installation service, buying an all-new device assembled mostly by robots and low-wage Chinese people is simply more cost-effective in every country where knowing how to use a soldering iron is worth more than a few dollars per hour.

The only way around that is to teach kids how to build and repair custom electronics as part of the regular school curriculum. I don't know about you, but I learned to make sand-mold aluminum castings, silk-screened t-shirts, wooden bookends, and to spot-weld sheet metal in my 8th grade shop class. My classmates and I really would have been better off replacing the t-shirt module with custom-etched circuit boards and simple electronics soldering. That was close to the time when Heathkit stopped making hobbyist electronics kits, too.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#176

Post by Htsthbjig » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

googamooga wrote: post #143

incepted wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poor people". He didn't mean to but this is the general reflection of the culture that permeates Apple as a company and the bubble in which they live. I remember once one of my wealthy friends saying "I don't understand why people live in one bedroom apartments". I stared at her for a solid minute to determine if she was joking but no, she was dead…

This story is old as the world. "Qu'ils mangent de la brioche" - "Let them eat a cake", as great princess Marie Antoinette said upon learning that the peasants had no bread.

She never told that.

That was fictional phrase written in a novel by one famous writer, and attributed to Marie Antoinette, in order to discredit her because those who did benefit from that.

You should contrast your sources.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#177

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

Thinking of all of the computers I've had since 2007, all of them are usable and still in use at least once a week.

2006 era Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66Ghz. Run Windows 7 gave it to my mom. She still uses it.

2009 era Sony Viao - Core Duo 1.66Ghz, 2Gb RAM. Windows 7. My son uses it for Office and MineCraft

2009 Dell Pentium Dusl Core 2Ghz, 4Gb of RAM. It's still my only laptop. The display is 1600x900 and is still better than many cheap laptops. The battery is crap though.

2011 Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz laptop. My wife's computer. It's still feels fast.

My workhouse is a 3Ghz I3 with 6Gb of RAM. Bought in 2012.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#178

Post by NEDM64 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

existencebox wrote: post #109

Perhaps I have some wires crossed from too much time as a sysadmin, but I take a 5 year old (+) PC (or any machine, really) as a mark of pride, not any bit of shame whatsoever. It speaks to a high degree of reliability which often speaks well of the operator (even if just "choosing robust hardware" is a component of this) Some stories to add some color to this: Ran a very primitive file sharing server for my universi…

That's not a PC (Personal Computer), it's a server.

You are thinking about hardware, Apple is talking about the whole computer.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#179

Post by mikehearn » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

incepted wrote: post #134

mikehearn wrote: post #36

I interpreted that comment as a jab at the PC industry. The implication being that in the last 5+ years the PC industry has failed to offer 600 million users a compelling reason to upgrade. Isn't that the correct interpretation, considering the whole point of bringing that up is because they're positioning a new device intended to replace the PC? I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poo…

> I seriously doubt it's intended to mean (to quote the article) "LOL poor people". He didn't mean to but this is the general reflection of the culture that permeates Apple as a company and the bubble in which they live. I remember once one of my wealthy friends saying "I don't understand why people live in one bedroom apartments". I stared at her for a solid minute to determine if she was joking but no, she was dead…

As a hardware company, if a huge percentage of your user base is still using a product you made five years ago, there are two schools of thought:

1. "Great! Our products are so well-made, stable and backwards-compatible that users do not have to upgrade."

2. "This is terrible. We have failed so thoroughly to innovate that people are content with using five-year-old technology."

It's not like Apple is unaware of virtues of #1, but as a company they are clearly in bucket #2. In five years, if 600MM users are still using the iPhone 6, I'm certain they would also consider that "very sad". I don't think Schiller and the exec team have blinders, they are just holding the rest of the PC industry to the same standard to which they hold themselves.

Re: Dear Apple, there’s nothing ‘really sad’ about using a 5-year-old PC

#180

Post by gd2 » Wed, Mar 23, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

It seems a somewhat strained interpretation to view this as Apple is anti-poor people. But it does point out that Apple is losing touch with what people do with personal computing power.

Phone are much better then five years ago, computers not so much. I'd much rather spend my dollars where the major improvement in computing technology is, then spending to upgrade a desktop to view thing almost the same as before.