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Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

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Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#171

I don't know if I'd agree that unsupervised learning is the "cake" here, to paraphrase Yann LeCun. How do we know that the human brain is an unsupervised learner? The supervisor in our brains comes in the form of the dopamine feedback loop, and exactly what kinds of things it rewards aren't totally mapped out but pleasure and novelty seem to be high on the list. That counts as a "supervisor" from a machine learning p…

Wouldn't that be a self-supervised learning? Yes, as the brain lears, it gets rewarded or not, but not by any external organism - rather by itself (or a part of itself). The "learning instruction manual" is in there somewhere. So if you are able to code an AI so that it can run experiments over itself and gradually build this "learning instruction manual" eventually it will become able to do things you never though o…

I think that's what the AlphaGo team did - they trained their agent against itself, and it learned new moves not explicitly programmed in! With an evaluation function just saying ahead / not ahead.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That IS unsupervised learning - you are maximizing an optimization function, you are not training using a set of "truth" values.

Hmm, I don't think so. From wikipedia: "Unsupervised learning is the machine learning task of inferring a function to describe hidden structure from unlabeled data. Since the examples given to the learner are unlabeled, there is no error or reward signal to evaluate a potential solution." (emphasis mine)

Yes, "unlabeled" means that the examples are not marked as "true" or "false", and the "inferring" you are doing is making your function fit the data (e.g. minimizing some error term). Life doesn't come with pre-packaged answers; humans use unsupervised learning.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#173
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. In engineering we've shown great advancements not by exactly reproducing biology from cases like transportation (wheel vs legs) or flight (engine and wing vs flapping feathers). We can't even mass produce synthetic muscles and instead use a geared motor. The growth in building increasingly sophisticated AI is faster than our efforts to reverse engineer biology. I could see that changing with improved obse…

I feel that your analogy does not disprove OP's claim. You would first have to prove that the analogy is actually applicable. Theoretically, one could argue that motion is substantially different from intelligence such that the analogy does not hold. But I am with you in that engineering / CS / ... should not wait for neuroscience to make further discoveries but continue the journey.

Interesting point, but which do you think is a more reasonable prior: that intelligence is a deterministic process similar other's we've encountered or that there is something uniquely different about intelligence than other physical phenomena? I think the latter requires more assumptions so I would argue philosophically it is the one that requires the proof or more evidence :)

Regardless, my feeling is that there is a healthy dose of human hubris around intelligence. If I train a dog to go fetch me a beer from the fridge, that seems pretty smart. It learned how to understand a request, execute a complex sequence of actions for motion and planning, reason around occluded objects, understand depth and 3 dimensional space, differentiate between objects, and more without me writing a sequence of rules to follow. I'd be happy to have a robot that intelligent. Plants dont have brains or neurons yet react to sensory stimulus such as light touch or sound, communicate, and even have memory and learn. It's not at a scale to do something interesting within one plant but communities of plants are arguably the most successful organisms on the planet.

Andrew Ng likes to point to a Ferret experiment [0] where experimental neuroscientists rewired the visual inputs to the auditory cortex and the auditory cortex learned to "see" the visual signals! This suggests that there may be some amount of unified "learning" rules to the brain. Biology is never so clean but if humans have whatever this intelligence thing is that lesser organisms do not, there is another angle to look at things. We have a lot of neurons which suggests less per neuron specialization than say a C. elegans; basically large populations of neurons perform tasks that in lesser creatures single or few neurons may perform. While the trees are complex and important to understand for biology and medicine, the forest may have some high level rules.

Looking at something that appeared intelligent 50-100 years ago but seems mechanical now, we have text to speech. NETtalk was a simplified computational neuroscience model from the 80s that could synthesize human speech. Today we have far better quality techniques that came out of R&D focused on things like large high quality labeled datasets for training, better soundcards, more processing power, and algorithmic improvements. Researchers didn't continue trying to model the brain and instead threw an HMM and a couple other tricks at it. Now we're going full circle back to neural networks but they aren't using any advances from biology and certainly arent produced by computational neuroscientists like Terry Sejnowski.

It's funny because at the time of NETtalk they thought that learning to read would be an extremely hard problem because it incorporates so many components of the human brain [1]. While it certainly wasn't a trivial problem, state of the art OCR and object recognition came from similar artificial neural networks a decade later with LeNet and MNIST * . And no, ANNs != biological neuronal networks. The models of computational neuroscientists are different; for example look at [2, 3] for high level models or [4] for a tool.

Now I'm even more convinced than before that understanding the brain is great for humanity but wont be necessary for building intelligent systems that can perform tasks similar to biological ones.

[0] http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v404/n6780/full/404871a...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NETtalk_(artificial_neural_net...

[2] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/338/6111/1202

[3] http://ganguli-gang.stanford.edu/pdf/InvModelTheory.pdf

[4] http://neuralensemble.org/docs/PyNN/index.html

* Perhaps you could argue that convolutions are loosely inspired by neuron structure, but that sort of knowledge had existed for quite some time, with inspiration arguably within Camillo Golgi's amazing neuronal physiology diagrams from the 1870s let alone the 1960-80s. It's telling that papers on CNNs have little to no neuroscience and a lot of applied math :)

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are three potential definitions: 1) Acting like a human (this is the Turing test approach) 2) Thinking like a human (this is cognitive science, and for now is focused on figuring out how humans think) 3) Thinking rationally, ie, following formal logic (the difficulty here is encoding all the information in the world as formal logic) 4) Acting rationally. That is, entities that react rationally to their goals (th…

Those aren't broad definitions at all! Quick question though, what is "acting", what is "thinking", what is "rational"? Your definition of intelligence practically includes the term in its definition(s).

I like the acting human approach (Turing) because it can be stated more precisely. One test is the classic Turing test -- fool a human judge.

Another line for acting human would be the ability to self direct learning in a variety of situations in which a reasonably intelligent human can learn. That means a single algorithmic framework that can learn go, navigate a maze, solve Sudoku, carry on a conversation and decide which of those things to do at any given time. The key is that the go playing skill would need to be acquired without explicitly programming for go.

I believe a lot of our intelligence is the ability to perform solved AI problems given the situation. The key is combining those skills (whether as a single algorithm or a variety of algorithms with an arbiter) and the ability to intelligently direct focus. That's why most researchers aren't confusing alphago with general intelligence. It can play go - period.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#175
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have true AI - it's a vast, thriving industry. Or how about calling that vast, thriving industry "weak AI," or "clever algorithms," which is what they really are. The original definition of AI was what we now call strong AI, but after some lesser problems were solved without actually creating strong AI, we had to come up with some name for those.

I want to see an AI that can improve itself by developing new algorithms for arbitrary tasks. I wonder how far off we are from that now?

http://arxiv.org/abs/1506.03134

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#176
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best discussion in terms of hardware adjusted algorithmic process I've seen is by Miles Brundage[1]. The additional hardware was the difference between amateur and pro level skills. It's also important to note that the non-distributed AlphaGo still had quite considerable compute power. Now was a sweet spot in time. This algorithm ten years ago would likely have been pathetic and in ten years time will likely supe…

That can't be right. Amateurs do not beat pro players 25% of the time, yet single machine AlphaGo beats distributed AlphaGo 25% of the time.

I don't think comparing win loss distributions is particularly insightful.

By a single machine winning many games relative to the distributed version, really it's just saying that the value/policy network is more important than the monte carlo tree search. The main difference is the number of tree search evaluations you can do; it doesn't seem like they have a more sophisticated model in the parallel version.

This suggests that there are systematic mistakes that the single 8 GPU machine makes compared to the distributed 280 GPU machine, but MCTS can smooth some of the individual mistakes over a bit.

I would suspect that the general Go-playing population of humans do not share some of the systematic mistakes, so you likely won't be able to project these win/loss distributions to playing humans.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#177
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no enough reinforcement volume to learn anything complex. If child gets external reward for every waking moment until she is 12 years old, it's just 4.2 million signals. Reinforcement learning works for fine motor control and other tasks where the feedback loop is tight and immediate. Reinforcement and conditioning can also modulate high level cognition and behavior, but it's not the secret sauce of learning…

I could not follow your argument. Could you elaborate? (Honest question)

[deleted]

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are three potential definitions: 1) Acting like a human (this is the Turing test approach) 2) Thinking like a human (this is cognitive science, and for now is focused on figuring out how humans think) 3) Thinking rationally, ie, following formal logic (the difficulty here is encoding all the information in the world as formal logic) 4) Acting rationally. That is, entities that react rationally to their goals (th…

Those aren't broad definitions at all! Quick question though, what is "acting", what is "thinking", what is "rational"? Your definition of intelligence practically includes the term in its definition(s).

You can go to the source I cited to find further explanation.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I don't think so. From wikipedia: "Unsupervised learning is the machine learning task of inferring a function to describe hidden structure from unlabeled data. Since the examples given to the learner are unlabeled, there is no error or reward signal to evaluate a potential solution." (emphasis mine)

Yes, "unlabeled" means that the examples are not marked as "true" or "false", and the "inferring" you are doing is making your function fit the data (e.g. minimizing some error term). Life doesn't come with pre-packaged answers; humans use unsupervised learning.

Right, but we do have a reward function that says pleasurable/painful and novel/boring and probably other stuff too. So that can be viewed as a labeling on the data. Earlier data can be associated with the reward labeling through induction; that's how a recurrent neural net works. Doubtless that's an oversimplification though.

Re: Yann LeCun's comment on AlphaGo and true AI

#180
post #106

Ah, the joys of arguing about artificial intelligence without ever defining intelligence. It is the perfect argument, everyone can forcefully make their points forever, and we'll be none the wiser whether this AI is 'true AI' or not.

That's right. 'Intelligence' isn't a useful technical concept. Think of it like 'beauty' or 'interestingness'. It's a quality of the impression something has on you, and not an external objective thing.

By this definition, a successful AI makes the impression of intelligence on people that observe its behaviour.

This definition is pretty well known, though not universally agreed on, and it serves me well in my professional AI-research life by removing this otherwise tediously unresolvable argument.

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