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When Are You Really an Adult?

theatlantic.com

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Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#171

Post by thatcat »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #136
TeMPOraL wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay, thanks :). I'll be recruiting competent guardians for myself then. CVs welcome. Mail is in the profile. ;). Seriously though. Often the part of living with depression is keeping up appearances, so that you don't get labeled by friends and relatives as a childish adult. For some reason, many people tend to switch to a condescending attitude then, and this is very much not helping the depressed person.

Children growing up also don't like people condescending and treating them as the children they are. If a child puts on the appearance of being an adult, should we treat them as such and give them the rights and responsibilities of being an adult?

treating a child like an adult can lead to them acting like an adult and accepting responsibilities they otherwise would not, where as condescension re-enforces their role as a child

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#172

Post by nitrogen »

beccasanchez wrote: post #162
nitrogen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth I didn't downvote any of your other comments but I did this one, despite this being the most substantive one in this thread. It feels like you're trying to pick a fight rather than have a useful discussion in the other comments, and in this one pull out a bizarre tangent into the definition of a "man". Maybe internally you and I and the other commenters all feel the same about equality but with di…

I have a philosophy degree. I don't feel discouraged, I feel embarrassed that my software colleagues are so thin-skinned and pedestrian. What you're calling "bizarre" is some entry level philosophy of gender, bro.

And some would say philosophy of gender has gone pretty far off the rails compared to the discourse used by the rest of society.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#173

Post by ehnto »

Yhippa wrote: post #169
vinceguidry wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally have made a lot of decisions oriented around the inevitability of this dynamic. I let friends fall away after they move across town or just otherwise lose the ability to stop seeing me regularly. I've walked away from commitments where I'd lost every single reason why I'd made the commitment in the first place, I don't do this lightly. I've let myself become estranged from family for the sole reason they…

I am so afraid of letting people fall away like you do. I have no idea why. There's something in me that says to keep in touch with everyone. Your way is much more productive.

Just realise that the friends who care about you can come in and out of your life quite freely, without holding any grudges.

Imagine leaving to travel one day, for a year, no contact with anyone. Then imagine who will be excited to see you versus who will be bitter and distant because you left. You don't need the latter.

I am of the view that you should be happy with what time you get with others, because it is a privilege to be thankful for. No one owes you their time, nor do you owe yours to others, and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#174

Post by MawNicker »

transfire wrote: post #145

Never.

I don't know why you were down-voted. Too terse maybe? It's just another label with moving goal posts. A carrot for those who seek identity. Your answer was short and sweet albeit a tad sour.

10/10: Utterly accurate. Perfect signal/noise. Would read again.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#175

Post by teekert »

meric wrote: post #107
teekert wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love is selfish, I take care of my loved ones for selfish reasons and it feels good. It makes them feel good as well, to be loved by someone who wants them to feel good, not to please them, not to please my family, not to do what my culture wants or out of guilt but to be loved sincerely, because it make me feel good. Taking care of them is taking care of myself.

What you described is called being responsible for yourself and others, and responsible feels good, because it is good, by good meaning having utility, as determined by natural processes. I don't like your previous comment because it can mislead people into doing something irresponsible even when it doesn't feel good because they think they should only be responsible for themselves and not others.

So you are saying, all human beings somehow are responsible for the happiness (we didn't define what they are responsible for but I'll assume happiness/well being) of all others? Where do you draw the line? Why are you not giving more of your salary to poor people? Who determines what is enough giving? Can I hold you responsible? Or, who can? Or do you perhaps I agree that you may feel responsible but you can't be held responsible... In which case your are not responsible (claiming one is responsible for others is the statement I originally responded to). One can take responsibility for the well being of other, this can feel good. One does not have this responsibility implicitly. Or at least I strongly believe one should not.

Example: What is a more desirable situation?

A persons taking responsibility for a child out of a deep feeling that it is good of a person feeling forced into taking care of a child because of cultural pressures? (Arguably) The child of person 2 is better off when someone is found that feels natural responsibility for him/her.

Luckily most parents feel strong responsibility for the well being of their offspring. For those that don't, we have adoption agencies and other methods to help. Generally our society believes it to be more moral that people can give their child away than to force them into a responsibility they don't want (or know they can't handle). So we already believe, even for our own children, that responsibility is yours to take, not something you have by default and needs to be forced upon you. Forced responsibility is not love, it is anti-love, it will lead to sick relationships.

So to come back to the original post: Being adults is about taking responsibility, not about complying to some culture enforce role model that is responsible for others. You can not be forced into taking responsibility (meaning you don't somehow have it) but if you don't take it, you'll end up nowhere (you'll be a homeless person or in jail.)

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#176

Post by biot »

You're an adult when you no longer give a shit about doing or saying things that others may think are childish. At some point you come to realize that nobody else can dictate what should or shouldn't make you happy.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#177

Post by hgh »

russnewcomer wrote: post #14

I've frequently thought this over the past few years, and I feel like the conclusion I have is different than others in this thread. I don't becoming an adult is really about you, exactly. It's not about your independence, or your actions. It's about when other people become dependent on you. I think this is the way that it has long been thought of in cultures outside of the post-Enlightenment West. This was my stron…

Well said. A mentor of mine once told that to be a child is to be dependent, to be an adolescent is to reach for independence, and then to be an adult is to recognize our interdependence.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#178

Post by Confusion »

I'm not sure Thoreau is such a great example of an adult. As [1] argues

  The real Thoreau was, in the fullest sense of the word, 
  self-obsessed: narcissistic, fanatical about 
  self-control, adamant that he required nothing beyond 
  himself to understand and thrive in the world.
  [..]
  “Walden” is less a cornerstone work of environmental 
  literature than the original cabin porn: a fantasy about 
  rustic life divorced from the reality of living in the 
  woods, and, especially, a fantasy about escaping the 
  entanglements and responsibilities of living among other 
  people.
Much of which, as many here argue, is essential to 'being an adult'.

[1] http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/19/pond-scum

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#179

Post by johnchristopher »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #135
johnchristopher wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, I believe the spectrum going from developmentally disabled to depression (or OCD for instance) is too wide to put every member of the set under the incompetent label.

You provided a scenario where the mental illness hampers their ability to be an adult. Those with a mental illness that doesn't hamper their ability are necessarily excluded from that categorization.

But some of those mental illness are treatable (depression, OCD, etc.) and the individual can get back to `functional' once `treated'. But in the crux of the battle against the illness they are not able to function properly: should they temporary be unlabeled ? (I think so, but what does it imply regarding responsibilities ? How can one be responsible for his healing if the very disease they have make them not seek relief ?).

I believe labels come and go according to circumstances.

Re: When Are You Really an Adult?

#180

Post by DanBC »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #135
johnchristopher wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, I believe the spectrum going from developmentally disabled to depression (or OCD for instance) is too wide to put every member of the set under the incompetent label.

You provided a scenario where the mental illness hampers their ability to be an adult. Those with a mental illness that doesn't hamper their ability are necessarily excluded from that categorization.

Lack of capacity is narrowly defined. So, a person may be able to make decisions about who they have sex with, but not able to look after their finances.
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